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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by CAFR
There's a lot to be said for not ever having to scrape carbon off of a bolt. I run an Osprey Defense piston conversion in my own carbine and have installed over a dozen of them without a single hiccup. No permanent modification to your rifle, no valves, no springs, no changes to be made for blanks, cans, or caliber change. It just runs, guys. Shoot me a PM and I'll hook you up with the best deal on one.


I shot a lot of AR barrels out.

In the process of that IE killing a barrel, I can count on one hand the number of times I"ve felt compelled to scrape carbon..... and I've shot out more barrels on ARs than a lot of folks ever have.


Carbon scrapping is important, if you want to have a good looking BCG.

I have a little tool made just for that and whenever I get around to cleaning the BCG, I use it, just because I have the tool.

Remembering that diamonds are pure carbon, it's easy to see how carbon deposits can be so hard. grin

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"There's a lot to be said for not ever having to scrape carbon off of a bolt."


Even Pat Rogers has said that it's not necessary to scrape carbon off a DI bolt.

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Of course it's not necessary. I think we all agree on that.

But in my old age, I like clean shiny things.

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If you want other useless things to do, buy some of those long pipe cleaners and stick them in the gas tube to clean it. grin


No wait, that's actually destructive. Never mind.

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I'm lazy as you are probably aware.. I used to keep a glass bottle of cleaner and when it came time for a good cleaning, soak the complete BCG in it for a day or two, pull apart and finish cleaning.

Scraping is a PITA. But then again hard carbon fouling has to be taken out by abrasives in the throat area.. but in that area its an issue, but in the tail of the bolt... other than wanting it clean and shiny there isn't any real reason to do it IMHO... unless you have the other DI standing there....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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What do you guys clean with. I use Breakfree CLP. Do you put some down the gas tube? I never have.

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Originally Posted by Dixie_Dude
What do you guys clean with. I use Breakfree CLP. Do you put some down the gas tube? I never have.


Clean? What is that? shocked

When I clean my RRA guns, I use foaming bore cleaner, Rem oil in the action, and Hoppes #9 on the outside.


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Originally Posted by Dixie_Dude
What do you guys clean with. I use Breakfree CLP. Do you put some down the gas tube? I never have.



Don't. Keep it lubed and shoot it.




Somewhere North of 6k rounds without cleaning so far.
[Linked Image]



I have went well over 10k rounds on properly built M4's/AR15's between cleanings. Keep it wet and rock on.

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It still shoots accurately after 6k? I don't clean my AR after each range day but that is a lot of rounds.

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I don't clean mine very much either, I clean the barrel to get the copper out for accuracy once in a while, I wipe off the bolt and carrier and fill it up with slip 2000EWL, it smokes sometimes. whistle

I guess I don't worry about stuff that works. I bet that a Colt with DI if lubricated properly will run just as long as one of these piston guns. Someone prove me wrong.


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Originally Posted by LightsOutSix
It still shoots accurately after 6k? I don't clean my AR after each range day but that is a lot of rounds.



Depends on what you consider "accurate"? This is an issued Colt 14.5in M4 with free-float fore end. When new it averaged 5 shot 1-1.25 MOA groups with MK262 MOD1, which is 5.56mm pressure 77gr SMK's. It now averages around 1.5in or a little over for 5 rounds with MK262 MOD1. I expect the barrel to go at anytime so it is mostly regulated to a training gun anymore.

IME some will lose acceptable accuracy for the purpose (solid 2MOA) as soon as 4-5,000 rounds and others may go 10k+..... I start getting suspicious around the 6k mark as things tend to start to go south then- mainly bolts breakage and gas port erosion. In any case they don't have to be cleaned. Just keep them lubed.

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Just to clarify I'm only speaking to guns built to military spec or better. I.E.- Colt, Noveske, Danial Defense, etc. Hobby guns are a different animal.

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I cleaned with Shooters Choice and one of the good copper cleaners and abrasives when I did.

Buttoned tubes would be tossed at 3500 rounds, cut ones start suspicious at 5-6000 rounds.

I"ve had them hold just around MOA or over to over 12K rounds once just on an experiment, but it was getting hard to continue winning matches and such with a gun that innaccurate.

Cleaning wise I could see a degrade in accuracy around the 500 to 600 round mark, enough so that I was anal enough to clean at that point.

But long gone are the days of cleaning our M14s every night, even if only 30 shots fired.

Granted I demanded and expected a bit more accuracy than most would.... IE when the gun was shooting larger than 2 inches for 10 shots at 300 yards it was high time to clean or rebarrel...


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Whatever... Run your nasty guns and be proud. I'm just the poor gunsmith who gets to clean up all the messes. Impingement guns are good for business. wink



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Gas guns don't require the upkeep of a piston gun. Check out the Guns and Ammo torture test done last year. They did everything possible to 4 piston guns and two gas guns. The RRA elite operator and a Larue gas gun where the only ones to continue functioning. Even with their match triggers and match chambers they kept working while the other 4 piston guns were out of commission.

Go ahead and drink the piston Kool-Aid, but time and history proves the gas guns to be better.


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Originally Posted by CAFR
Whatever... Run your nasty guns and be proud. I'm just the poor gunsmith who gets to clean up all the messes. Impingement guns are good for business. wink


You are full of beans, this runs contrary to my experience and to everyone else s experience. Why would you post such crap?


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Originally Posted by CAFR
Whatever... Run your nasty guns and be proud. I'm just the poor gunsmith who gets to clean up all the messes. Impingement guns are good for business. wink


I think you are drunk. I"ve yet to see an issue with a DI AR that would require a supposed gunsmith. And Iv'e shot them, well lets just say, a fair bit over the years....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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One needs to remember that not all shooters, or rather, gun owners, know how to take care of their guns. The AR is still a mystery for many of their owners.

For example, I am sure we have all seen the video of the guy who has an ammo issue with his AR but he keeps chambering rounds, bumping the forward assist button and getting clicking sounds after pressing the trigger. He does this until the gun blows up.

Then there was the time when I when to a local public range (I think that was the last time I ever went to a public range,) a few years back. Some guy was messing with the trigger of his AR after removing the upper. He kept pressing the trigger and letting the hammer hit the lower's front end. I cringed every time he did that and finally I walked over and gently informed him that was not a good thing to do, he should put something between the hammer and the lower to catch the hammer. He gave me "the look" and I just apologized for disturbing him and left.

I have seen too many people buy an AR, and the very cheapest ammo they can find and then load up mags and just empty the magazines in the general direction of the target. Most of the rifles I saw were simply not lubed.

We all know a DI AR will run forever, provided it's wet. (I do grease myself, but I have oil just in case a quick squirt may be needed. Anything is better than running dry.)

So, I have no difficulty in believing that CFAR sees abused ARs.

I would think however, that anyone here would have no problems running their DI ARs as long as they need to run.

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lets see some pictures of them abused AR's.


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I don't have pictures of the guy slamming the hammer in the lower.

CAFR should be able to provide some picture of the ARs he says he works on, I don't have any of those.

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