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My question was directed to CAFR, hoping he would show us some pictures.


ARIC

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Good video, why does none of this stuff happen to me?


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Geez, I don't know. Could it be because you know what you're doing?

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Originally Posted by jimmyp
My question was directed to CAFR, hoping he would show us some pictures.


I know that, but that video is just too funny.

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Originally Posted by jimmyp
My question was directed to CAFR, hoping he would show us some pictures.


Sorry Bud. I haven't taken any photos of any grungy ARs to show you. I stand by my statements about the Osprey kit. Go ahead and futz around with gas rings and slobbering oil all over your rifle. I like my GP rifles and will probably never go back to DI. This "supposed" gunsmith has stated his opinion and doesn't wish to impose his will on any of you experts. Opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has one.



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Last edited by CAFR; 05/02/12.


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Here is the article from Guns and Ammo. read it and tell me if the piston guns are still worth the added weight and expense.

http://funreviews.net/publish/guns/AR_Reliability_Torture_Test.php


I doubt any of us would treat our guns like these guns where treated. Give me a gas gun and leave the piston guns home.


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The whole united states military is wrong, I must get pistons installed, I know my current carbines work just fine and the others I have owned all have worked fine, but this amazing revelation regards how to turn a functioning mil spec carbine into a hobby gun is now at the top of my "to do" list.

If it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind.


Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzUUOBfLpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Flimsy looks fragile

Last edited by jimmyp; 05/03/12.

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Originally Posted by jimmyp
The whole united states military is wrong, I must get pistons installed, I know my current carbines work just fine and the others I have owned all have worked fine, but this amazing revelation regards how to turn a functioning mil spec carbine into a hobby gun is now at the top of my "to do" list.

If it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind.


Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzUUOBfLpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Flimsy looks fragile


This YouTube Video guy has made a lot of assumptions about the kit without actually torture testing it. In fact, the kit reduces your total part count on the rifle and isn't nearly as fragile or complicated as he reports. At least it's not as complicated as the other piston systems available today. You need not make any adjustments or use any devices on your weapon to go from blanks to full power loads, to shooting with a suppressor. Additionally, without introducing gas and carbon into the upper receiver, necessitating the use of copious amounts of grit collecting oil, the bolt carrier and upper receiver are exposed to far less heat and wear.

The horse and buggy were quite adequate as a mode of transportation. People laughed at Henry Ford and wondered why anyone would buy a car when you are already feeding the farm horses and they would get you there, too.

Let's look at some of the stellar decisions that our military has made about weapons. Drop the .45 ACP in favor of the 9mm so the girls can shoot, too?

I'm still not trying to sway you die hards, but the newbies have a right to know the facts about GP systems and their benefits.



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Originally Posted by CAFR
Originally Posted by jimmyp
The whole united states military is wrong, I must get pistons installed, I know my current carbines work just fine and the others I have owned all have worked fine, but this amazing revelation regards how to turn a functioning mil spec carbine into a hobby gun is now at the top of my "to do" list.

If it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind.


Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzUUOBfLpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Flimsy looks fragile


This YouTube Video guy has made a lot of assumptions about the kit without actually torture testing it. In fact, the kit reduces your total part count on the rifle and isn't nearly as fragile or complicated as he reports. At least it's not as complicated as the other piston systems available today. You need not make any adjustments or use any devices on your weapon to go from blanks to full power loads, to shooting with a suppressor. Additionally, without introducing gas and carbon into the upper receiver, necessitating the use of copious amounts of grit collecting oil, the bolt carrier and upper receiver are exposed to far less heat and wear.

The horse and buggy were quite adequate as a mode of transportation. People laughed at Henry Ford and wondered why anyone would buy a car when you are already feeding the farm horses and they would get you there, too.

Let's look at some of the stellar decisions that our military has made about weapons. Drop the .45 ACP in favor of the 9mm so the girls can shoot, too?

I'm still not trying to sway you die hards, but the newbies have a right to know the facts about GP systems and their benefits.


Did you read the article I posted a link to? What in that article would make anyone buy a piston gun?


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He must own stock in them, that or facts, data, and years of experience don't count

Pistons are just something else to sell something to fix a problem that does not exist


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Originally Posted by CAFR
Originally Posted by jimmyp
The whole united states military is wrong, I must get pistons installed, I know my current carbines work just fine and the others I have owned all have worked fine, but this amazing revelation regards how to turn a functioning mil spec carbine into a hobby gun is now at the top of my "to do" list.

If it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind.


Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzUUOBfLpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Flimsy looks fragile


This YouTube Video guy has made a lot of assumptions about the kit without actually torture testing it. In fact, the kit reduces your total part count on the rifle and isn't nearly as fragile or complicated as he reports. At least it's not as complicated as the other piston systems available today. You need not make any adjustments or use any devices on your weapon to go from blanks to full power loads, to shooting with a suppressor. Additionally, without introducing gas and carbon into the upper receiver, necessitating the use of copious amounts of grit collecting oil, the bolt carrier and upper receiver are exposed to far less heat and wear.

The horse and buggy were quite adequate as a mode of transportation. People laughed at Henry Ford and wondered why anyone would buy a car when you are already feeding the farm horses and they would get you there, too.

Let's look at some of the stellar decisions that our military has made about weapons. Drop the .45 ACP in favor of the 9mm so the girls can shoot, too?

I'm still not trying to sway you die hards, but the newbies have a right to know the facts about GP systems and their benefits.


Totally agree on the horse/buggy vs car statement. Always have. Folks move forward.
As needed.
The DI AR provides nothing that wasn't already there and nothing special enough that warrants it. Thats as simple as it can get.

If you WANT one then tahts cool, but there is no reason to HAVE to have one. Especially not for 99% of the folks out there. I'll be arrogant and say that I could be in teh 1% IE folks that really run the snot out of em and can't afford them not to run, but i'll be danged if I've ever had an issue with one that wasn't ammo related. Except an ancient SGW one from the early 80s...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by CAFR
... In fact, the kit reduces your total part count on the rifle and isn't nearly as fragile or complicated as he reports.


I confess that I know virtually nothing about these piston conversion kits, so I am always open to learning more.

I watched the video and I saw all the new parts, that replace a simple gas tube. So I was wondering how there could be less parts with that piston than on a DI system.

The Osprey web site shows that you get 9 parts with the kit:
1- Op-rod
2- Piston Chamber
3- Roll pin
4- Carrier
5- Piston
6- Valve retaining clip
7- Piston retaining clip
8- bushing
9- Groove pin

This replaces:
Carrier with staked carrier key using 2 screws. It's 4 parts that are treated as 1, I never remove the key.
Gas tube
Roll pin
3 gas rings on the bolt, but I use a MacFarland ring, so one piece.

I'm thinking that saying there are less parts is somewhat misleading. In fact, 9 new parts really replace 4 old parts; to me, that makes it more complicated.

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As that famous Philosopher Scotty said to Captain Kirk, " the more complicated the plumbing the easier to stop up the pipes". laugh

The KISS principal holds true all over but really needs to be adhered to when your life could be in the balance. More moving parts is not simple, and is more likely to cause issues at the worst time. smirk

Last edited by dmsbandit; 05/03/12.

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Interesting statement, IIRC the Germans ran into the same thing, to GOOD of engineering and too many parts failed in real life battle.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
Good video, why does none of this stuff happen to me?
Why did that guy even touch that plunger let alone constantly bang on it? I just pretend the thing doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by rost495
Interesting statement, IIRC the Germans ran into the same thing, to GOOD of engineering and too many parts failed in real life battle.

The Luger pistol was exquisitely well-made but the high quality, low tolerance manufacture made it susceptible to fouling from ordinary dust and grime, so it had to be issued with a holster that kept it fully encapsulated and clean.

For the last 45 years, every trigger puller in the US military has been a field tester for Colt Armament's DI AR15 platform. And it's been standard issue for more than 70 other countries. That's why it's one of the best-developed and most refined weapons platforms on the planet. It has no flaws that aren't already well-documented.

About two months ago, more than sixty years after the fact, Colt finally released their own OpRod AR, which they probably never would have done if the HK416 (and similar) weren't taking market share.


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Originally Posted by jimmyp

Pistons are just something else to sell something to fix a problem that does not exist



For clarity the short stroke piston M4 (HK416) was developed for a reason. That being reliability and service life from the military issued CQBR (10.5 inch M4) suppressed and with extremely heavy firing cycles was less then ideal. You have to understand that in 2003-2004 the issued 10.5in upper for certain military users was not the 10.5 inch guns we have now. We didn't have the buffers, springs, adjustable gas blocks, and fully developed barrels that are available. I have been issued and used the original CQBR, HK416, and current issued MK18 10.5 inch guns. The 416 was the piston guns all other were measured against. And truthfully was the gun all SBR's were judged against for military use. For several reasons that is not necessarily the case anymore.


Unless you need a suppressed, short barrel rifle, for heavy firing cycles, most users would be better served with the standard DI AR15/M4.

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I don't know if this has been discussed but wouldn't developing a cleaner burning powder be more productive than developing more piston rifles?

I'm thinking there is more room for improvement with fewer hassles. I like reloading with Alliant RL10 becuase I get velocity with less powder. Less powder means less carbon residue. Can powder be developed that leaves less residue without velocity loss? Just a thought. kwg


For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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