Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 4 DG rifles "hybrid" CRF?

Hi, I am trying to decide between 4 rifles/makes for a dangerous game rifle to be used in AK. and Africa.
I want open sights and will mount a TR24G: AccuPoint 1-4x24 30mm Riflescope with BAC, Green Triangle Reticle.

The guns are CZ Safari Classic Custom Shop Magnum Express; the Sako 85 Kodiak; the Weatherby Mark V Dangerous Game Custom(would've chose their Safari Custom but at 2x the price, for what seems to just be a wood stock over composite???); and last but certainly not least at double to triple the cost of the others; the McMillan Prestige DG Custom Rifle, all in .375 H&H.

Three of them seem to be this sort of "hybrid" version of a controlled round feed (CRF) or hybrid between that and a push feed (PF) action, the McMillan Prestige, Sako 85 Kodiak and the Weatherby DG Custom?
The CZ Safari Classic Express, I know is a classic Mauser type CRF.

I think the 3 rifles, other than the CZ, are slicker rifles, with better "fit & finish", certainly the McMillan at $6500. is a true hand built & honed custom shop gun, as is to a lesser degree, the Weatherby.
Sako is a production gun, I believe, and the CZ "Safari Classic: is partially "custom shop" as I spoke to the shop and they said in .375 H&H (as oppose to larger more custom calibers) the gun is mad in Czechoslovakia just like the cheaper CZ550, and then a better stock and barrel band plus for the .375, shorten the barrel to 20".
But kinda scary (CZ custom shop guy) when they do not even know that gun has the barrel shortened to 20" hence along with new stock & swivel, the $1400.up-charge.

The CZ and Sako is in the same price range ($2k-2.5k) , the Weatherby $3300-3500(w/options) and the McMillan is way more @ $6650., but looks like a terrific hi-tech functional work of art.

Of course...there is this traditionalist "true" CRF ONLY for DG vs. PF or it doesn't matter "thing"...???
I don't know?

What say you?
Thanks

The CZ 550 American Safari Magnum, 375 H&H, open sights, Kevlar stock is a bit over $1650 retail and IMO the better of the four...

But I'm only a lowly squirrel hunter

Hard to beat the CZ.

at least so say the legions on African PHs who bet their behinds on them...

For around $1,200, you can have a brand new Winchester M70 Safari Classic or Alaskan. I'm not sure why that's not in the conversation. Throw in a Cerakote job and a McMillan stock, and you're still likely under or around $2k. It's true CRF, and it isn't a compromise gun in any way. I took a standard Mark V to Africa in .375, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again (DG or no), but FN may be cranking out the best gun for the money right now with the new M70.

I own a Mark V, a Sako 85, and a new Model 70. Of the three, the M70 is every bit as much gun at a whole lot less money.
IMHO, the CZs are overrated. I know they have a cult following, but I just don't get it. Sure, they're beefy and strong, but the fit and finish are another world away from any of the others.

What he said - to the max...

I'm going to get crushed by the legions of CZ lovers on this site, so let me clarify my remarks:

There's nothing wrong with a CZ. However, the ones that I've handled would need some attention to be on par with the other rifles mentioned. The actions are rough, they weigh a million pounds, and the fit and finish are uninspiring in this era of CNC machining. Solid rifles, but they are what they are. Now, there are outfits out there that will take your CZ and turn it into a work of art, and that's all good and well. However, the M70 is a $1,200 work of art when you take it from the box.

If you told me that you were on a budget and needed a DG rifle, we'd be having an altogether different conversation; the CZ would be a serious contender (though I'd still point you to toward the M70). You could buy a CZ for an excellent price and spiff it up over time as money allowed. However, the fact that you're looking at the Mark V and the HS Precision tells me that money isn't an object, and I would honestly choose the new Winchester over either of them.

The CZ is a good rifle that will get better with use (and some fine tuning). The M70 is a GREAT rifle right out of the box. The Sako, HS Precision, and Weatherby Mark V DG are all excellent rifles that will leave you wanting for nothing, but they're all going to cost you and they are absolutely no better than the new M70.

Hmmm, interesting, I kinda wrote off the Winchester right along with the Remingtons, because I had a bunch of guys on TWO other forums, tell me that BOTH Rem & Win have slid downhill quality wise ( fit & finish & reliability )
and not being familiar with these, actually bolt action hunting rifles in general ( though I have done a ton of research on them lately )
And coming from a tactical HG background I have only owned one bolt rifle in the past, a Weatherby Lazermark and loved it, especially that Weatherby "action" and thick, slick, tight bolt with no slop like others have...?

I would like to HEAR more about the Win M70 from those who own recent ones, the ones the company currently make as I will be buying "new".
I hear about these "pre-64" models ...on & on & on?

With reliability it is "is" or "is not".

With fit and finish you can have a modifier.

The CZ is revered for its reliability and fit - back from the times of the ZKK actions and stocks.

A nice finish is just that - nice to have, but never needed - and prone to fade, when the rifle get used in such fashion that makes the CZ shine ITFP.

Heck, might get some milage guiding with a nice rifle and babying it up and down the mountain instead of keeping eyes out for game and client.

Making sure it is nice and dry and clean instead of chefing up the Mountain House.

Putting it inside the plane and strapping clients rifle to the wing strut.

:-)

so what is all this talk I am hearing about Winchester as a company, going "downhill" and hence, their products?

The Model 70 is likely the most reliable repeating rifle ever taken to Africa in measurable numbers. If you don't believe me, just ask any experienced PH you can find.

There are other good ones out there, but to suggest that others (like the CZ) are somehow better or more reliable is laughable.

There are people (our own Redneck is one) who do not like the new trigger on the FN, mostly because the old one was so good that it makes one wonder, why change? The new FN Model 70s that I have seen and handled are at least the equal of the New Haven models in terms of fit and finish and way better than the USRA rifles.

I took a Weatherby Mark V S/S in .375 H&H to Africa, but never shot any dangerous game with it. However, it worked very well--so well that I spent another $900 to have it accurized by Hill Country Rifles and bedded in a McMillan classic stock. At that point, I had about $1,500 in the rifle, not counting the scope and mounts.

For about $2,000 in today's dollars, you could do the same thing with a Model 70 or a Mark V and have a rifle that would do anything that you ask of it. I have no doubt that the McMillan Prestige DG Custom rifle is worth the coin, but there are more economical alternatives that will work just as well.

If I was going to buy a 375 or 416 I agree with you, but I can tell you when you get to the big boys (450 Rigby, 505 Gibbs, 500 Jeffery) the M70s seem a bit on the flimsy side to me. The CZs do come a little rough as far as the action goes, it costs about $80 to smooth them up. My CZ feels solid, smooth and feeds and extracts fast/slow right side up / upside down but it did need a bit of work.




I wouldn't sell it or trade it for anything less than one of these

Hartmann & Weiss 505 Gibbs? I'm dreamin.....

Here's an article about DG rifles by Don Heath, an African PH who is now working for Norma ammunition. Very opinionated but based on his own observations and experience:

http://www.africahunting.com/firear...rofessional-hunter-proficiency-exam.html

Thanks Jlin222, that's the article that convinced me to buy a CZ as my first dangerous game rifle. I had lost the link.

That's probably a fair point. I don't think I'd ever feel compelled to carry anything larger than a 416 in a repeating rifle anyway. That's double territory as far as I'm concerned, but that's just me.

So I take it nobody likes the Weatherbys, so what about the Sako & McMillan, both makers say their guns are DG CRF only just not "Mauser" style???

I rather think that you are going about this the wrong way. It seems you want to buy a new gun, and want one that is 100% ready to go and reliable for dangerous game. I do not think any such gun really exists. I think even the best design needs to spend some time in the hands of a gunsmith who is good with that design, and can make sure that individual weapon is as close to 100% reliable as possible, and then 200-300 rounds of shooting it either proves or disproves that hope.

For me, that is one of the Classic Win 70s tuned up. I cannot offer insight into the CZs because I am left handed and they are not.

So you must differntiate between the design and the individual specimen. You will not be carrying a design. I agree with the premise that perhaps a bad design precludes 100% reliability in difficult use, but contend that a good design does not ensure it.

utah708, I agree with you 100%. I went through the same process with my left handed oldest son, buying him a safari rifle for his "getting out" present after 4 years in the Army, 3 with the 3rd Ranger Battalion. To make it a little more complicated he wanted a 375 H&H Stainless / Synthetic CRF since he wants to go to Alaska to brown bear hunt. After much searching I found a LH Winchester M70 stainless / synthetic classic in 416 Remington. I was going to rebarrel it for him, but he decided he liked the 416. I had my gunsmith (who fixed my 500 Jeffery feeding problem) go through it with a fine tooth comb. He also added a recoil reducer, and Cerakoted it. We've taken it to the range (we shoot about every two weeks and always shoot our big bores offhand). It also passes the 50 dummy round magazine test (feed and extract a full magazine, slow and fast, right side up and upside down). Not about to allow my first born hunt dangerous game with a rifle not up to the task. We plan to put a 1.5 - 5x Leupold on it with Talley QR rings (Cerakoted of course).