Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Who are the preeminent Mauser experts?

2 builders that kind of apply as the above would be TT Proctor of wilmslow, cheshire (he does have a web site) and the former head smith at "John wilks" London, Craig whitsey (NO web site he doesnt need one) if I EVER needed a rifle for DG I would jump through hoops to bring either over here. [/quote]

Why? I can see a sentimental attachment to the products of "Blighty", your homeland and I do not doubt that these chaps DO produce fine rifles, however, there are more GOOD riflemakers in the USA, by orders of magnitude, than in any other nation, the UK included.

Here in Canada, we have Martini Gunmakers and they can and do produce bolt rifles equal to ANY built anywhere at any time. I have quite a few big game rifles, 34 at present and have owned and carried scores more all over BC and much of Alberta, working in the wilderness. I also have owned "name" British guns and shot lots of others, Rigby and Holland, included. I would buy a Martini Mauser over any British bolt rifle I have ever seen and the cost of one is much less than paying for the "marque" of one of the famous Brit. makers.

In the USA, Lon Paul, D'Arcy Echols, Joe Smithson,Duane Weibe and on and on and on, can build DGRs that will meet and exceed anything and this is, IMHO, a more practical way to go.

There is another maker in Ontario and I have spoken with him by phone and am impressed with what he has to say and the reports I have of his products. I can't think of his name just now,it is Greek and begins with "S", IIRC.

So, given that the British makers now tend to copy the American style in bolt rifles as do the French, ie, Dorleac, the Germans, Prechtl, et al and other Euros, I see little point in paying to import a Brit, maker or rifle into Canada.

That said, if you WANT it and can pay for it, why now, this is all about fun, anyway, eh!

Some day I would like to have a 416 Taylor done up by Sterling Davenport. I think that he might of retired but every one of his guns that I have seen is a knock out.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Todd Ramierez www.customgun.com

Why? I can see a sentimental attachment to the products of "Blighty", your homeland and I do not doubt that these chaps DO produce fine rifles, however, there are more GOOD riflemakers in the USA, by orders of magnitude, than in any other nation, the UK included.

Here in Canada, we have Martini Gunmakers and they can and do produce bolt rifles equal to ANY built anywhere at any time. I have quite a few big game rifles, 34 at present and have owned and carried scores more all over BC and much of Alberta, working in the wilderness. I also have owned "name" British guns and shot lots of others, Rigby and Holland, included. I would buy a Martini Mauser over any British bolt rifle I have ever seen and the cost of one is much less than paying for the "marque" of one of the famous Brit. makers.

In the USA, Lon Paul, D'Arcy Echols, Joe Smithson,Duane Weibe and on and on and on, can build DGRs that will meet and exceed anything and this is, IMHO, a more practical way to go.

There is another maker in Ontario and I have spoken with him by phone and am impressed with what he has to say and the reports I have of his products. I can't think of his name just now,it is Greek and begins with "S", IIRC.

So, given that the British makers now tend to copy the American style in bolt rifles as do the French, ie, Dorleac, the Germans, Prechtl, et al and other Euros, I see little point in paying to import a Brit, maker or rifle into Canada.

That said, if you WANT it and can pay for it, why now, this is all about fun, anyway, eh! [/quote]

Maybe your comments are correct/true? however both of these smiths are "old school". Craig has become a friend through him building me a rifle and doing various other work for my friends and I, forgoing fashion for function. Trevor, his work shop was just around the corner from were I served my apprentiship and once allowed me to have a look at the way things were done. I have since handled a few of his rifles and they are beyond comparison.
And yes you are correct, it would be nice to have some English craftsmanship in my hands again, as it made sense to sell all my rifles when I moved over here (they were made by a Scottish builder "PRS") I got my rifles before he became "known" and then he inflated his prices and I went elsewhere.

...beyond comparison...? Welllll, that seems excessive to me. The British bolt rifles I have owned and those owned by friends were "OK", but, very over-priced for the actual quality. These were by Gibbs, Rigby, Holland and some lesser-known makers and I was/am not impressed by them.

I am half-British in ancestry, one of my great-grand papas was a Grenadier Guards officer and I am not "anti" Brit.,rather the opposite. But, Brit. "name" guns are priced for "snob" appeal and I just cannot see paying for that.

Ralf Martini's bolt rifles are FAR superior to any Holland or Rigby I have handled and cost a fraction of the price of a Brit. So, for me, that is where I would go, but, I am happy to "store" any of these Brit. rifles that you may not have room for at your current digs........

Geez, we bloody colonials are helpful, eh!

I have handled a 375 H&H built on a mauser action by H&H. I wasnt very impressed and certainly some of the smiths mentioned on this thread(Weibe, Martini) can smoke anything H&H is capable of.

I have no doubt that ANY of the smiths mentioned would smoke anything by H&H, what most seem to forget is that I would consider H&H as a "commercial" gunsmiths in that they have a "Team" of people making guns, and when you have a "team" of people you have a variance of quality between each person, they are also "employed" and as such, will have the friday afternoon monday morning syndrome!!.
However with those mentioned above they are all "self employed" and will have (hopefully) a different mindset?

Then you have the smiths that do it all, Craig and Trevor are in that category, they do all the metalwork, blueing,stoning, trigger work, everything (craig also makes his own mounts), they also do all the wood work, turning a blank into a stock, including chequering and bedding, the only thing that they dont do is the engraving.
Then the list of "true" smiths gets very small.

What I wonder about is what they do to a H&H, Rigby, Purdy, or any of the really high dollar bolt rifles to make them worth in the neighborhood of $20,000.00.

The rifles in this price range are plain, unadorned rifles. I can understand $50,000.00 worth of engraving and inlays, and a stock of the same quality.

But, you can buy a bolt rifle made in American, by some of the best builders, and the workmanship would be as good or better than any English rifle, for around $5000.00. You can spend more, but you have to put some effort into it.

I would love to own a Purdy in .404 Jeffery, but I know what the outlay would be. For me, the price is just too much, unless you just have to have it. Having to have it has never prevented anyone from getting one. Well, a lack of $20,000.00 might be a minor problem.

Sad to say. Mr. Davenport is firmly retired the last I heard. It took me a while to save up the money to have him do a .35 Whelen for me but he'd decided to quit working. On a brighter note though. I did have a .280 Remington put together by Lawson in Tucson and they farmed the stock out to Mr. Davenport for the checkering. I learned that when one day I had it at the range and Mr. Davenport saw the gun. He knew it right away. Guess I'll have to accept that as better than nothing. For the record, he is one hell of a nice guy. A true gentleman.
Paul B.

Theres many answers to your question.

The name? supply and demand? overheads? (London particularly were those premises are, are Hugely expensive) salary etc etc.

People often dont know or dont care, but I beleive that at the moment its a 5 year apprenticeship (I also seem to remember it used to be 7?) thats if you can get one!!.

I also believe the most expensive part of a "fine" gun/rifle is the engraving and have heard numbers as high as �80-100 per hour for such, how true this is, is debatable but the engraving is still the most expensive, then the wood work.

Dave, the above and your last post on this issue make a lot of sense and there is NO question that British-made guns are among the finest ever built anywhere. I would LOVE to go to the shops of guys like Trevor Proctor and just sit there and bask in the "aura" of master rifle work.......no bloody wonder I am always near broke and wear old jeans,etc......

I think that many here do not realize that,for most of the past 125 years, a bolr action rifle in the UK was seen as a "working grade" tool and not considered as an equal to the fabulous singleshot and double rifles built in the "Golden Era" from about 1875 to 1940. So, given the unfortunate "name" factor,many of we North Americans. tend to see a rather plain Holland as being too costly relative to what is available here.

A nice, but not really "fancy" rifle from Martini or Weibe is going to cost 20K and guys like Echols, Heilman,Mandarino and so forth are much more expensive. So, the difference really lies in,as always, what is most valid to you,the bloke whose bank account has to suffer the blow of paying for this obsession.....

What,would a basic Proctor or one of the other independent Brit. maker's rifles sell for, before VAT and what waiting period is normal?

Generally speaking your not "buying the rifle/gun" you are buying the parts and the work on those parts.

So, for example, your invoice will be broken down into 3 or 4 parts, you will be quoted a price for the work involved on the action/barrel, sighting system, blueing etc, then you will be quoted a price for the wood (blank) and then a price for the work ON the blank (chequering stock style etc) and then a price for the engraving (if any) and finally if you want the rifle/gun in a custom motor case with accessories load development for the bullet type weight that the client will be shooting most and any other "do dads) that the client might want.

Price wise a "basic" model would set you back about $5k at the VERY most probably alot less.

In one of my old shooting emporiums (F.A Andersons, East Grinstead) I once saw a Proctor hunter on a Sako action in .270 (yuck!!) on the shelf for �800!! if I had been after a new rifle on a long action i would have been all over this. It was next to a brand new Sako and the difference between the 2 was astonishing
I couldnt put my finger on it and say it was this or that it was just "different", that rifle stayed on the shelf for 2 days and then sold!! (270 in my old area wasnt popular at all)

Big Redhead,

If I understand you bought a Ruger .416 rigby.

Earlier you said that you wanted perfection from the get go. But then you posted several things that your Ruger needs.

Did your goal change, did you think the Ruger was close enough?

I'm really not trying to start a fight. But from your O.P. I thought that this was a deal that could only be satisfied by a full custom.

My 458 Lott was by David Christman. I also have a 7X57 mauser by him. I have a 9.3X62 on a Banner mauser by Jim Kobe. He is also finishing a 250-3000 Peruvian small ring mauser for me. James Anderson is doing a second rifle for me in 416 Rigby on a mod 17 Enfield. I would not hesitate to use any of them.Some other quality smiths have been mentioned.

Ralphie,

I started this thread to discuss and learn about the art of making perfect Mausers because it is a fun and interesting topic. Never did I say I was planning an actual custom build at this time. I like Ruger rifles and have wanted to own one of the magnums since their introduction. Even if I actually was planning a custom, there is no rule that dictates I cannot buy a Ruger magnum rifle at the same time.

FWIW, I think my Ruger magnum rifle has the potential for greatness. It already has all the essentials. I believe all it needs is a bit of handwork here and there. I got what I consider a pretty good deal on the NIB Ruger, and I think I will do the handwork myself and learn even more in the process. If I am successful making the rifle more-or-less perfect, it will end up being the least costly path. And if I screw it up and turn it into a single-shot it will be on me and I have nobody to blame but myself. Either way it will not cost anywhere near the price of a custom from a custom gunmaker of renown.

The gentleman I work with had built rifles for both president Bush's

I'd trust my 308 anywhere although it wouldn't be practical. It weighs 17.5 lbs with a scope :-D

Here's a link to my LGS that has this for sale,Mr Bishop is gone now,but what a rifle this is !! There is block on the link,so the photos can't be duped...Nice gun,along with a couple of Gene Smillion rifles that will pop your eyeballs out...

Go to www.gunsinternational.com




Guns International #: 100246809
Nate Bishop .416 Rigby, show gun









Lister Inventory #: N0853

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Michael Ullman of Hill Country Rifles. I have a 30-06 and a 9.3 x 62 that were executed flawlessly. One of those rifles has been to Africa and performed flawlessly. When I return the 30-06 will work its magic as well.

Michael is a superb artisan and one of the finest smith's and human beings I know and I would not hesitate to recommend hin for Mauser work.

Best,

Bill

I remember being at SCI in Vegas and seeing Nate Bishop working on a rifle during the show......I have wondered if this is the one.You don't hear as much about him but he was a great stockmaker.

That 416 is a beauty.