Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Any 257 Roberts fans for whitetail?

Yes the .358 Win. is even more dead than the 257R and it's not a in between cartridge either.

I made the .358 Win. mine for the fun of hunting up there in the VT woods. Perhaps many other rounds would have been as effective?

I have a few of them but I am hunting in a more open area now so I carry regular rounds and a magnum once in a while.

To add: I was in a gun shop in 1966 and there was that 99F in .358W. for $81.00. I brought it home and pushed my heavy 06 P-17 aside.

Don,

If you'll recall, the 257 Roberts was introduced in 1934, during the depths of The Great Depression, when few people had much surplus income to buy things that weren't necessary for basic living. Then there was WW2, when there weren't any civilian firearms being made in the U.S. for at least 3.5 years and only a limited amount of the most common hunting cartridges being produced from 1942 thru late 1945. So, from 1934 thru late 1945, the 257 Roberts languished because of a pretty unfriendly market environment, world wide financial crisis followed by world wide total war.

I'd speculate that most of the rifles sold in 257 Roberts were sold between 1945 and 1955, when the 243 was introduced. The most common rifles chambered for the 257 Roberts during that period were the Remington 722 & 760 and Winchester 70. Both the 722 and 70 came standard with 24" barrels. Winchester also sold the 70 Fwt with a 22" barrel and a few 70 Carbines with 20" barrels. FN and probably a few other companies in Europe chambered the 257 Roberts for their U.S. and Canadian markets, but I don't recall any common U.S. production rifle chambered in 257 Roberts that came standard with a 26" barrel. The Remington 722s in 222, 222 Mag, and 244 originally came with 26" barrels, but, IIRC, the rest of the early 722s were cataloged with 24" barrels.

I think that it is common knowledge that the original ballistics claimed for the 243 were exaggerated to make the 243 faster (on paper) than the 257 Roberts with equal bullet weights and, since speed sells, the rifles chambered in 243 flew off dealers' shelves while those in 257 Robert gathered dust. Consumers bought the hype and Warren Paige trumpeted the 243 as the perfect dual-purpose varmint & medium game cartridge from his position at Field & Stream. Interestingly, Jack O'Connor remained loyal to the 257 Roberts and wrote about the 250-3000, 257 Roberts, 243, and 244 as being more equal than different, in terms of actual "in the field" performance.

Also, for whatever reason, the 257 Roberts has always been loaded to less than its potential by Rem/Win, often with what seem like suboptimal bullet choices. I'm old enough to remember when Winchester/Olin cataloged 87, 100, and 117 grain factory loads for the 257 Roberts, but the 100 grain was a rather round nosed ST with a lower BC, rather than a sharp pointed soft-point with a superior BC.

You must be having a senior moment tonight, 'cause "yet the round is light in a way and not really powerful enough. Most of us can shoot better guns." just doesn't make any sense.

Jeff

I have a Winchester Featherweight XTR in 257 Roberts/Leupold 2x7,its one of my favorite guns!

Good posts Jeff....all true.

The Roberts was the second or third CF rifle I owned,a pre 64 M70 with the 24" barrel and I used it several years shooting woodchucks in New England.

Later friends and I built a bevy of the things and they saw action for more woodchucks here, then found their way on deer and bear hunts in New England,and antelope and mule deer in in Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, and gawd remembers where else.If you told my rancher friends in Wyoming the cartridge was inadequate as a mule deer and antelope cartridge, they'd think you were nuts.They shoot elk with them.

I killed my biggest ever pronghorn with one in Wyoming at about 400 yards,along with many others.

A 75 HP at 3400 fps leaves chunks of woodchucks,87 gr at 3300 knocks them for a loop,and a good 100-120 gr bullet through the chest of a deer of any size flat kills them.We know this from having done it, not read about it.

That pre 64 was heavy, but not the rifles I built or bought later on.Today there are Hawkeyes and Kimbers of reasonable weight.If you can't kill medium game effectively with one of these chambered in a Roberts,a guy needs to look elsewhere for the problem.

What is a regular round?

Rounds that make him [bleep].

Jeff,

Thanks for the information that the 722's came with 24" barrels. A buddy and I hunted chucks together and he had a 722 in the 257R and I carried my 722 in 222. Both rifles were heavy, plain and accurate and I though his barrel was the same as my 222.

His rifle was kind of loud for chucks on the farms. He shot the 87 gr bullet then.

None of the cartridges were as accurate as those that came out after about 1950 when Sierra started up and used the sizing up principle of bullet making. Thus many said that some new cartridge, like the 243, that came out about then is more accurate.

Never the less the 257R is dead and best at nothing.

I am going to the range now as it may rain later.

Don,

"Never the less the 257R is dead and best at nothing."

Really?

For the general shooting public, those shooters who only shoot a few rounds per year, don't reload, and aren't rifle snobs/loonies, the 257 Roberts has probably been "dead" for over 50 years. Other than in the Ruger 77, the 257 Roberts hasn't been cataloged as a standard offering from any of the other major U.S. firearms manufacturer for any extended periods of time, since Remington dropped the 722 in favor of the 700 in 1963 and since Winchester revamped the 70 in 1964. Even in the Remington 722, the number of 722s chambered in 257 Roberts dropped precipitously after 1956. According to John Lacy's book, pages 72 & 73, there were 19,446 722s produced in 257 Roberts between 1951 and 1956, but only 1,409 between 1957 and 1962. Over 93% of the 722s in 257 Roberts were made during the 1st half of the 12 year production run, leaving less than 7% to be made during the 2nd half of the production run, the portion that coincided with the introduction of the 243 and, to a much lesser extent, the 244.

In recent years, Remington has cataloged the 700 MR in 257 Roberts for awhile, made 1-year runs of both the 700 Classic and 700 CDL-SFs, and has made some non-cataloged limtied runs 700s and 760s for a couple of different wholesalers, with Grice coming immediately to mind. Winchester & Winchester/USRA have cataloged the 70 Fwt in 257 Roberts for awhile and, for a limited time, offered a matte/synthetic 70 carbine in 257 Roberts. AFAIK, Savage has never cataloged the 257 Roberts in their 110 series, but did make a non-cataloged limited run just prior to the introduction of the "improved" 110 series with the Accu-Trigger.

The 257 Roberts may be dead to the general shooting public, but it is alive and well respected by shooters in the know. I don't think that anyone can come up with an empirical formula to bestow the title of "best" or "worse" on any rifle cartridge. I get the impression that you've never owned a 257 Roberts, so your distain for it is mostly conjecture, rather than actual experience. IOW, you're expertise on the subject of "257 Roberts" is more of the "armchair" variety.

Jeff

As I wrote before I hunted with a buddy who shot one. He was a very good shot and the rifle was effective. It's just that the 257R is best at nothing.

It makes too much noise and is not ricochet ideal for pests. For deer any normal person can shoot more gun.

That buddy was up at the camp in VT and in the woods there hunting deer and a big old guy came up the hill towards him carrying the ubiquitous 740.

He stopped to chat and asked him what he was shooting. Of course it was his 722/257R. When hearing that it was only a 257R the hunter went into a diatribe how the 30-06 is what's needed here what with the deer and even a bear!

Finally he left and continued up the hill. Soon after he is out of sight a buck comes into view and my buddy shoots it and it falls dead. The hunter comes back down the hill at the shot and sees the buck. He shakes his head.

It's still best at nothing. That's why it's dead.

I think that your lack of personal experience may have contributed to your short-sighted negative bias toward the 257 Roberts.

As a dual-purpose cartridge that bridges the gap between pure varmint cartirdges and pure medium game cartridges (if such a beast actually exists), it is (IMO) as good as any.

What are the cartridges that are, IYO, "best" at anything? I'd like to see that list if it is based on in-depth personal experience, rather than pure speculation.

Jeff

PS - Being a numbers guy, I re-keyed the data in Lacy's book into an EXCEL file and came up with these fun facts about the Remington 722:

Total production = 117,595

222 production = 55,700 (47.37%)
257 production = 20,855 (17.73%)
300 production = 16,756 (14.25%)
244 production = 12,140 (10.32%)
308 production = 6,155 (05.25%)
222Mproduction = 3,803 (03.23%)
243 production = 2,185 (01.86%)

Well said Jeff.

I bought my .257 just shortly after ruger was manufacturing the MKII. Even then Not once did I give a thought to it being "dead" commercially, did not matter cause I 'roll my own'. If I had to buy factory stuff all the time..... I would be just as upset as the person you give that very good rebuttal too

I read how good the cartridge performed having a slight edge on the 6mm counterparts, be the game ground squirrels or spike elk. I have an Uncle who killed all game Montana had to offer shy of moose, woofs and Grizz bears. So when I had a chance to by a rifle so chambered, I did.

Over the years the light rifle has flawlessly slain a small heard of deer between me and my family members, the wives first bear, coyotes WAY out across the timothy and stubble fields. I do take it elk hunting on occasion, I have just not had THAT rifle in my arms when the opportunity has arose.

I can say first hand the 257 Roberts is not dead, its LEATHAL.

I think it is HILARIOUS for anyone to say the 257 Roberts is dead......

and then hunt the 358 W.



That said, I've had a few 358s and I like em.

Along with a lack of personal experience, I think being full of BS may be at the root of his feelings about the .257.

1) As far as I know, the only factory .257 with a 26" barrel has been the Ruger No. 1B--which is indeed way too heavy. All the Remington factory rifles and Winchester Model 70 sporter had 24" barrels. As for the Remington 722 being too heavy, mine weighs an ounce over 8 pounds with a 6x36 Leupold, and had been carried many miles by my wife Eileen.

2) The .257 is far from dead. More than one company produces at least a limited run now and then to satisfy demand. This is very common these days, with CNC machinery. (In fact, it's done with the .358.) And some companies chamber the .257 as one of their "regular" cartridges in some models, including Ruger and Kimber.

3) All of today's factory rounds for the .257 aren't underloaded--except for the original 117 round-nose Core-Lokt from Remington. The others all use spitzer bullets at +P velocities, even if they don't call them +P. Ammo factorfies wouldn't do that if the .257 was dead.

I haven't shot any 257 Roberts factory ammo for probably going on 30 years now, just reloads in the 75 to 120 grain range, and within that range mostly 75 grain Sierra HPs for predators and 90 grain Sierra BTHPs for whitetails.

Although I have some nice rifles chambered in 257 Roberts, including a light small ring Mexican Mauser that used to reside at the home of some guy in Townsend, MT, and I keep building them, I haven't shot the 257 much since I switched over to the unloved and unappreciated 25 WSSM in 2004.

Jeff

So what? Who needs to?

I can use integral calculus to find the area of a triangle, but I don't.

Wouldn't using 1/2 LxH be easier than integral calculus?

Jeff

Yes,buy a Bob...

Exactly my point. Why use "more gun" when it simply isn't necessary?

Well, with this kind of reasoning, the see saw has reached the other spectrum.

Why have we developed anything past 250 Savage, 30-30,30/40Krag,or maybe 348 W.?

We seem always to go to extremes. I am not ANTI almost any cartridge, altho some are far from my fav.

I prefer 2506 amongst 25s, 270 OR 280 etc. I prefer flatter, harder hits at long range. It's easier to hit at distance w/flatter traj.

Why limit ourselves to MINIMUMs? YMMV

This is MY choice - no one else has to agree. Feel free to disagree.

I love dead rounds....