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Is it just me?

Damn I hate the looks of all the new pick ups.
Bulges, boxy looking, plastic everywhere.

I may have to buy a new one soon and am trying to cope with the new reality.

I drive A LOT.
Mileage and reliability are going to be my top criteria in finding a new ride.
I don't haul heavy trailers anymore, I'm going to retire soon and though I've liked full sized pickups most of my life, I am willing to downsize.

Silverado 1500?

F-150?

Or a rice burner?

Toyota Tacoma 4 door?

If you guys had to start over what would it be?


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Originally Posted by Salmonella
Toyota Tacoma 4 door?



I've owned three and went to a Tundra this last time. I wish I had bought another Tacoma. They are JUST right for an outdoorsman.


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I love my 2011 Tundra. 5.7 litre engine, way more power than my last two F150's.

Better ergonomics and now on Kali's summer gas I can match the gas milage of my brothers four door Taco while driving a real truck.

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I bought a Silverado crew cab last fall. Love the ride, cant break 20mpg tho, hate the active fuel management, and feel like the 3.42 gears should have been 3.73. Beautiful truck, really like it overall, but honestly have been wanting more from it than I expected.

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I'm on my fourth Nissan, and I've been happy with all of them, no serious issues with them at all. I especially like the mid-size Frontiers now, I thought my older ones were a bit small, but this current size is "just right".
I've owned Fords and Chevys, but had "issues" with them, no such problems with the Nissans.
I won't rip a Toyota, but I've had less trouble out of my Nissans than my friends have had with their Toyotas, for whatever reasons, I will not speculate.


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I like most of the new ones. Dodge Ram is the nicest looking right now, then Ford f-150, Tacoma, Tundra. Heck, the GM's are my least favorite and they even look pretty good.


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i bought a new silverado z71 a couple months ago. i like everything about the truck. i still have 2 toyota's for use on the farms. both reg cab, one 4wd, the other 2wd. can't best a tacoma imo, but i wanted a big p/u since i haven't owned one in at least 12 years. ymmv

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To me, a lot depends on the local service..

When I lived in Santa Cruz, one of the reasons I sold my F250 was the local Ford stealership's service operation.. I loved the truck, but wanted to machine gun every person working at that miserable place. Nissan dealership service there was A100+

Locally, I haven't had much happiness at the Nissan stealership's service operation. I love my Titan, but those mofo's should all be delivering pizzas.

My next truck will probably be a Tundra or F150..





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I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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I like the Toyotas, that would be the direction I'd lean.


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I would look for a 'new' F150 with about 12K miles on it.

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Originally Posted by JLimbo
I love my 2011 Tundra. 5.7 litre engine, way more power than my last two F150's.

Better ergonomics and now on Kali's summer gas I can match the gas milage of my brothers four door Taco while driving a real truck.


No flies on the Tundra, for sure, but the smaller trucks are just easier to get around in tight places, which I frequent.


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The Chev's (or GM) are butt-ugly. That said, the fleet of 1500's we're running (4x4) are the lowest cost to run, and maintain that we've ever had. The 5.3 motor has been bullet-proof, and the six-speed automatics are standing up (we had a few issues, tho' not many, with the five-speed auto's).

These trucks get worked, and miles, but have proven to be a great vehicle.

Total miles for all the technicians with 'em is now over a million miles, and other than tires, brakes, and one that had a fuseing problem - all they do is run.

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You are right about most being ugly.

I like the looks of my 1995 Chevy 1500. It is even caked in dirt like it should be.

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Samo'

I bought a new F150 Saturday. I was looking for a "new" one with 12ish. Found one, but Ford is offering rebates and 0% right now. My payment was less on the new truck than it was on the used one.

First new truck I've had in several years. I always try to buy used trucks. It does help that my old college roommate owns a Ford dealership...

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Still driving my 97' F250 I continue to like it after all these years but the MPG hurts. I think the new fords are the best looking...but man for the plastic!

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"Jodi" is gunna have your truck - soon. >grins<

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Originally Posted by Rancho_Loco
To me, a lot depends on the local service..




Local Ford dealers are partners. One is my dad's neighbor and he is cool and the other dude gave me Fred so of course he is cool.

Bunch of deer heads, fish, elk, bear, wolf, beaver, bighorn, moose, goat, bear, and old saddles and stuff in their 'showroom'.

Shop is backed up though, only one diesel mechanic(Bakken suck) and they sell a chitload of diesels and those [bleep] always break down.....grin

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That new F150 looks pretty sharp..


Originally Posted by captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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They can have it. I want to drive this with the MK 19 on it.

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As my F150 4x4 just turned over 100K, I'm not in the market for anything new anytime soon. If I were, I'd be leaning hard toward a 4x4 crew cab Tacoma. They are roomy, with good power and good mileage. I really need nothing bigger than that, as I rarely tow anything really heavy.


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A truck does not have be a beauty queen. I go for utility...there is a good chance my 2012 F-150 will carry on that tradition of several Fords.


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Tacoma or tundra ....you can't go wrong!

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Owned a 90 Toyota SR5 4X4 for 17 years, the 3.0L V6 blew a head gasket, not the motor to invest any money into.

Looked for 3 months for a replacement, between a 2001 Tacoma or 89-94 model. Found a super clean 94 x-cab 4x4 with a like new 4cyl 22RE and 5 speed.

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Originally Posted by shortactionsmoker
Samo'

I bought a new F150 Saturday. I was looking for a "new" one with 12ish. Found one, but Ford is offering rebates and 0% right now. My payment was less on the new truck than it was on the used one.

First new truck I've had in several years. I always try to buy used trucks. It does help that my old college roommate owns a Ford dealership...




Sweet deal!


A new truck is way out of our budget, I'm jealous.....grin

Hey, post a pic if you have one.

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I'm still loving my 2011 F-150.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by Salmonella
Toyota Tacoma 4 door?



I've owned three and went to a Tundra this last time. I wish I had bought another Tacoma. They are JUST right for an outdoorsman.

+ one Cheers NC


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Just ordered a New F-150 today...

Screw, Ecoboost, 4X4, 6.5'box...

Now the wait eek


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Took this picture from the garage after I got home Saturday. We're headed you're way on Friday and my wife was bitchin' about hauling three kids in the back seat of an extended cab all the way to Montana. They're small -- only 8, 5 and 1. I told her we were driving my truck because her Explorer is just too dang little for me with a car seat behind me for 1600 miles.

I texted her this picture while she was out shopping. That's what she gets for complaining about my truck! I put my Case (son's name) license plate on the front so she'd know it was mine.

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I am driving a 2003 GMC K1500. Its been a great truck, no problems to speak of, and gets just terrible fuel milage. 14.5 average. The best I can get is 18 on a flat loop trip. Any uphill and its 16 mpg. Its a 5.3 V8 with the automatic and 4:10 gears (what was I thinking? or drinking?)

My next truck is going to be a 2003 Tacoma with low miles and the 4cyl. As soon as my wifes friends husband decides to sell it.

I think you ought to look at the Tacoma but maybe not a new one. They hold their value well from those I have looked at and they seem to be very reliable. The 4cyl gets 22 to 24 mpg on the highway with the manual transmission. The V6 isn't so fuel friendly though.

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guess I'm nostalgic, I liked 70's Chevy's, 90's Fords and 80-99 or so Tacos


I've been nosing around car dealerships when time allows (iows not often) to get a feel for stuff.

If I had to buy new right now, Tundra would get the nod, but I have to have an 8 ft. bed, growing up on a farm a truck with less than an 8 ft. bed just ain't a truck to me, sides we have a slide in o'head camper.

Pard that owns a gas station/repair shop says the quality of the Toyos still surpasses anything the big 3 put out.


I've got a 99 Taco that i bought used after my 87 got t-boned and totaled by a lady that forgot red light means stop.

It's a great lil truck, and i wouldn't trade my wife even for her 2007 Taco 4 door as it's a metal vs. plastic thing

also have a '02 GMC Sierra 3/4 ton HD ext. cab, it's the one I'll replace one of these days, it only has 95K miles and other than a fuel pump biting it, it's been a dang good truck.

can't see buyin G'ovt Motors again though.


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Quote
The V6 isn't so fuel friendly though
Tacoma V6 190 HP averages 19.5 MPG, the new ones are better I hear.

New Fords are plastic butt ugly inside, least the F250's are, which I have been spending a lot of time in.

I'll keep my older paid for 4X4 Tacoma, thank you.

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I've 165,000 miles on my Tundra after putting 185,000 on my T100. Since the smaller Tundra doesn't exist, I'd go with the Tacoma if I were buying new.



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I had a 1970 f250 then a 1977 f250 then went a bit newer and got a 1996 gmc k2500 extended cab long box with a 7.4 litre engine hooked to a 4L80E tranny and 3.73 diff, kinda hard on fuel. eek


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Originally Posted by Mako25
The Chev's (or GM) are butt-ugly. That said, the fleet of 1500's we're running (4x4) are the lowest cost to run, and maintain that we've ever had. The 5.3 motor has been bullet-proof, and the six-speed automatics are standing up (we had a few issues, tho' not many, with the five-speed auto's).

These trucks get worked, and miles, but have proven to be a great vehicle.

Total miles for all the technicians with 'em is now over a million miles, and other than tires, brakes, and one that had a fuseing problem - all they do is run.


My 2002 Z71 has been great.
Very few problems.
Many off road miles and the scratches barely show.

I wish I could clone the old girl.
She's got me off my local stompin grounds every time.
185,000 miles on the old broad.

[Linked Image]


Leaning Tacoma way, but we'll see.

More input guys, I really appreciate it!


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Ours are configured much the same as your '02, except I do insist on mudguards (more for rock chips).

Lot of trailering, always laden with weight in the boxs (tools, parts, etc), and just do a job - while getting reasonable economy. Haven't bought any with the cylinders that shut down if not needed, figure why pay for it since ours are always working.

You'd like the six-speed auto, the trucks tach-out at 1,750 RPM (or so) at 70 mph, and deliver 17-19 mpg, driven hard, while being worked. It's unreal.


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Yall seen the pics of my '92 toyota... 22RE, 330,000 miles, still going strong.

I also have a 2005 Nissan Frontier crewcab (my work truck), that I bought used 3 years ago. Its got 138,000 miles on it and the only problem has been a timing chain cover. I ran it too long before servicing the timing chain. It's got the 4.0 6 cyl. and gets 21/16 mpg. Plenty of pep, but doesnt like pulling trailers/boats... mpg drops to about 10-12. I like the truck, not too small and not too big.


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for what it is worth, a friend of mine bought a tacoma 4banger with a manual transmission a few months ago. Several years old.
He says it has no soul. He just got back from a road trip, only about 200miles on the interstate, rest back roads, between prescott az. el paso. Truck averaged 30 to 35mpg. He was pretty happy with that.


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Oh, you have much nicer rims - I order the super-duper butt-ugly steel ones.

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How long till a manual tranny is completely unavalable in a 4x4 pickup? Auto's suck in a working/offroad truck.

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F-150 with the ecoboost. My Dad has one and it's awesome.


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Truck averaged 30 to 35mpg. He was pretty happy with that.


That I' like.

Not being able to trailer, or haul much I wouldn't.

It's a trade off.

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Was considering a Tacoma Pre-runner with e-locker until I saw this clip.



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Originally Posted by 700LH
How long till a manual tranny is completely unavalable in a 4x4 pickup? Auto's suck in a working/offroad truck.


My Titan (5 speed auto) has a granny gear 1st in 4 lo that just WALKS down steep trails and roads. It's awesome..

I don't think I'll ever go back to a handshaker again.


Originally Posted by captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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How long till a manual tranny is completely unavalable in a 4x4 pickup? Auto's suck in a working/offroad truck.


Don't know that GM offers one in a 1/2 ton now. (not sure)

I was of your opinion 'bout the auto's as well, but no longer am. Between the tow/haul of the tranny, Hi-Lo of the transfer case, and the manual shift (tap-shift, on the shift lever) offered on the GM six-speed, I can creep, walk, jog, or sprint.

I really like it.

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Originally Posted by Salmonella
Originally Posted by Mako25
The Chev's (or GM) are butt-ugly. That said, the fleet of 1500's we're running (4x4) are the lowest cost to run, and maintain that we've ever had. The 5.3 motor has been bullet-proof, and the six-speed automatics are standing up (we had a few issues, tho' not many, with the five-speed auto's).

These trucks get worked, and miles, but have proven to be a great vehicle.

Total miles for all the technicians with 'em is now over a million miles, and other than tires, brakes, and one that had a fuseing problem - all they do is run.


My 2002 Z71 has been great.
Very few problems.
Many off road miles and the scratches barely show.

I wish I could clone the old girl.
She's got me off my local stompin grounds every time.
185,000 miles on the old broad.

[Linked Image]


Leaning Tacoma way, but we'll see.

More input guys, I really appreciate it!


Salmo, if at all possible, I would really like to know just the first digit of the Vin number on your 2002, in other words, place of manufacture. Ken.

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Was considering a Tacoma Pre-runner with e-locker until I saw this clip.


Tacoma TRD, 4X4 plus locking differential

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I will tell you, if I get one more hard sell press from the local Ford dealer's service dep't, scheduling me for service I didn't request, I'm going to buy a frickin Dodge and spin donuts in the Ford Parking Lot...mad


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Toyota Tacoma crew cab with the longer bed.

love mine.Just went over 100,000 zero problems. Expect another 200,000 like my other Tacoma

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Ya I dont care for the new ones either


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I miss my '79 Ford. Sure it drank gas like beer, rode like a wagon and caught on fire a couple of times but it was hard to hurt it.
then I had a '93 Ford and again it drank gas and caught fire (notice a trend) but it was a damn good truck till the frame got so bent the doors wouldn't close and it took a crow bar to open the hood but it only left me walking a few times.
Now I have an 07 Chevrolet and it just doesn't have the personality of my old trucks, so far no fire, does great on fuel (in my mind) and I have only had to walk one time. never could find out what happened it just shut off and wouldn't start for like 3 hours. walked to the road, got a ride came back and it started in the last 60k miles it hasn't done it again.


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I bought a new truck a couple of years ago. I wanted a Tundra. I drove it, the Ford and the Chevy. The Tundra just seemed too damm big. I liked the Ford and Chevy about the same though the Ford had a touch more rear leg room. Bought the Chevy as I got a better deal and am very pleased. My wife likes it too as it is basically the same as her Suburban. My '99 F-150 sits in Idaho and has a pile of miles with zero issues. It is the best truck I have owned.


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Originally Posted by Salmonella
Is it just me?

Damn I hate the looks of all the new pick ups.
Bulges, boxy looking, plastic everywhere.

I may have to buy a new one soon and am trying to cope with the new reality.

I drive A LOT.
Mileage and reliability are going to be my top criteria in finding a new ride.
I don't haul heavy trailers anymore, I'm going to retire soon and though I've liked full sized pickups most of my life, I am willing to downsize.

Silverado 1500?

F-150?

Or a rice burner?

Toyota Tacoma 4 door?

If you guys had to start over what would it be?


I agree about how modern trucks look. My Tundra is an '06, last year of the old body style, and it's a fairly straightforward look for a truck. But you want new. All the new stuff is trying too hard IMHO. And all the interior bling is very un-truck-like.

Having said all that, I'd suffer a Taco, myself. Toyota makes great vehicles. The styling is what it is. Get 4wd. V6.



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I bought the 2010 tacoma 2wd,auto,limited slip differential, extra cab.
rarely gets under 20 mpg ,even in town.


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You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez

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Ugly?

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Got a '07 GMC Z71 crew cab, 5.3, automatic with 3.73. Plenty of power for small trailers & boats. Bought new and zero problems. Get 20 mpg on the highway.

When shopping in '07 I looked at the Toyos. The Taco interior was much smaller with less payload/towing capability and the mpg was only about 3mpg better. My Rottwieler couldn't turn around in the back seat. smile

The Tundra at that time had less payload/towing and the epa est. mpg was worse than the GMC.

My GMC has been good to me.


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


Make a better product, provide better service.. or get over it.



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Originally Posted by Rancho_Loco
Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


Make a better product, provide better service.. or get over it.



Bull Schit,
Better product? are you crazy

I swear you westerners have no clue what the automotive industry means to mid western America's economy.

Last edited by cooperfan; 05/23/12.
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Originally Posted by SamOlson
I would look for a 'new' F150 with about 12K miles on it.


Good advice here, this is how I buy em.


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Originally Posted by Salmonella
Is it just me?

Damn I hate the looks of all the new pick ups.
Bulges, boxy looking, plastic everywhere.

I may have to buy a new one soon and am trying to cope with the new reality.

I drive A LOT.
Mileage and reliability are going to be my top criteria in finding a new ride.
I don't haul heavy trailers anymore, I'm going to retire soon and though I've liked full sized pickups most of my life, I am willing to downsize.

Silverado 1500?

F-150?

Or a rice burner?

Toyota Tacoma 4 door?

If you guys had to start over what would it be?
This ain't ugly to me:

[Linked Image]


And if I were to 'start over', I'd buy it's twin...


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Originally Posted by Redneck
Originally Posted by Salmonella
Is it just me?

Damn I hate the looks of all the new pick ups.
Bulges, boxy looking, plastic everywhere.

I may have to buy a new one soon and am trying to cope with the new reality.

I drive A LOT.
Mileage and reliability are going to be my top criteria in finding a new ride.
I don't haul heavy trailers anymore, I'm going to retire soon and though I've liked full sized pickups most of my life, I am willing to downsize.

Silverado 1500?

F-150?

Or a rice burner?

Toyota Tacoma 4 door?

If you guys had to start over what would it be?
This ain't ugly to me:

[Linked Image]


And if I were to 'start over', I'd buy it's twin...



Let's see Toyota build that! I'm still laughing (better product).

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Here's some instructions for your "better product"

http://www.toyota.com/recall/pedal.html

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Quote
You guys driving Toyota's


Thing that tickles me to no end 'bout proud 'Yota owners is when they get to braggin' bout the virtues of their wonderous 5.7 liter.

I already know, 'cause I ran 'em when they were GM's (for forty-plus years). grin grin grin

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I have driven Chevy trucks for almost 40 years. The last buy was a new Nissan Frontier. I liked the size, price and gas milage. It had a heavier towing capacity than the standard size Chevy and the turning radius was shorter. To cap it off the Chevy dealer I was working with on the truck I had picked out, thought he could keep me waiting for an hour or so while he left to work with a customer that came in after I did. So I bought a Nissan.
Only problem is that the Nissan will dent if someone just parks close to it. I think it is a flinch reflex the Japanese built into it. I picked up two dents the first week I had it.


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What gets me is how Detroiters don't get how much the repair bills on the big 3 trucks hurt the rest of the country.

I've got several million miles on Toyotas with 1 breakdown, 1, period. A bad power steering pump on an '04.

I buy GM full size for my business, I need 3/4 and 1 tons. Otherwise it would be 15 Tundras outside my shop.

How anyone can say GM's ride well is beyond me. Even the few 1500's I have ride like the proverbial log truck.

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I'd take the 1/2 ton GM's ride over the vast majority of cars - to include "luxury" sedans.

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Tell Micheal Moore about it.


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I just bought a 4 door Tacoma, my 3rd Tacoma and I like the 4 door model but I'd rather a regular cab for playing in the woods a bunch.

I'm sure there is a reason to purchase a 2wd truck I just don't know what that would be.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead


I'm sure there is a reason to purchase a 2wd truck I just don't know what that would be.
Maybe just to save money - especially in states with no snow/ice issues..


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Originally Posted by Mako25
Quote
You guys driving Toyota's


Thing that tickles me to no end 'bout proud 'Yota owners is when they get to braggin' bout the virtues of their wonderous 5.7 liter.

I already know, 'cause I ran 'em when they were GM's (for forty-plus years). grin grin grin


The gm 5.7l gets ate up by the Toyota 5.7l 10 of 10 times. Not even close.

Last edited by tzone; 05/23/12.

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Tundra is uglier than Rosie O'Donnells arse. Other than that, it's fine.

Love the looks of the Sierra, but I won't buy another GM until they are no longer Government Motors.

Tacoma has a terrible ride, worse handling, gutless engine. It's cheap though.

F-150 Good truck, but way overpriced now.

Ram - It's still a Dodge.


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I hadn't looked at Ford until recently when a co-worker of mine just picked up an F-150 with eco-boost. A very impressive vehicle that is getting 23 mpg on the highway with lots of room. I had been looking at the Tacomas, but after putting our family of 4 in one for a test drive I could tell it wouldn't be much fun riding any distance and the mpg was less than the fullsize Ford.

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Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by Mako25
Quote
You guys driving Toyota's


Thing that tickles me to no end 'bout proud 'Yota owners is when they get to braggin' bout the virtues of their wonderous 5.7 liter.

I already know, 'cause I ran 'em when they were GM's (for forty-plus years). grin grin grin


The gm 5.7l get ate up by the Toyota 5.7l 10 of 10 times. Not even close.


Hasn't been a 5.7L GM truck engine in over a decade, so I'm not sure what you're comparing.....



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Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


I have a 2002 z71 sitting in my driveway,I bought it thinking I was supporting my fellow Americans,

When I found out it was made in Mexico with Chinese parts, Well,You have no Idea how pissed I was.

BY coincidence, it happens to likely to be the most troublesome rusted POS I have ever owned,

Last week was power window regulators, this week right front bearing.

As I have fixed many of these issue's myself, I just laugh when Dealership and supply houses recommend OEM parts,

In my repairs I have seen the crap parts GM used to build these vehicles.

Simple things like the tailgate cables, an immediate recall back in 02-04 because the cables were snapping from just lowering the tailgate,

I replaced the window regulator last week, GM's ideas inside that door were as cheap as possible, The speakers were mounted on the thinnest cheapest support I have ever seen, naturally the supports were broke and the speakers were hanging inside the door by their wires.

Lifelong GM fan here, but things are really, really, messed up, with the entire Auto industry in general.

35k for a vehicle built in Mexico with Chinese crap parts, Explain that to me please.........

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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by Mako25
Quote
You guys driving Toyota's


Thing that tickles me to no end 'bout proud 'Yota owners is when they get to braggin' bout the virtues of their wonderous 5.7 liter.

I already know, 'cause I ran 'em when they were GM's (for forty-plus years). grin grin grin


The gm 5.7l get ate up by the Toyota 5.7l 10 of 10 times. Not even close.


Hasn't been a 5.7L GM truck engine in over a decade, so I'm not sure what you're comparing.....



I think that was tzone's point, that the only thing the old GM 5.7 and the newer Toyota 5.7 have in common is similar displacement.


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Where did cooperfan go?

I want answers.........

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Get the 4dr tacoma with the long bed and the tow package. I have the short bed and its plenty 99% of the time but there is alwasy the 1% where the extra foot would be nice. Anyhow, I liked the full sized trucks but didnt want to pay the gas bill. I average 19-20 in the city and 22.5 on the highway running about 72-73. Tacoma is a good truck especially if you dont need a full size.

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Originally Posted by bruinruin
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by tzone


The gm 5.7l get ate up by the Toyota 5.7l 10 of 10 times. Not even close.


Hasn't been a 5.7L GM truck engine in over a decade, so I'm not sure what you're comparing.....



I think that was tzone's point, that the only thing the old GM 5.7 and the newer Toyota 5.7 have in common is similar displacement.


Perhaps that is what he meant.

Just crazy all these comparisons (by anyone) of engines and trucks between today and even just a decade ago. The technology has changed so much.


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Originally Posted by Kenneth
Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


I have a 2002 z71 sitting in my driveway,I bought it thinking I was supporting my fellow Americans,

When I found out it was made in Mexico with Chinese parts, Well,You have no Idea how pissed I was.

BY coincidence, it happens to likely to be the most troublesome rusted POS I have ever owned,

Last week was power window regulators, this week right front bearing.

As I have fixed many of these issue's myself, I just laugh when Dealership and supply houses recommend OEM parts,

In my repairs I have seen the crap parts GM used to build these vehicles.

Simple things like the tailgate cables, an immediate recall back in 02-04 because the cables were snapping from just lowering the tailgate,

I replaced the window regulator last week, GM's ideas inside that door were as cheap as possible, The speakers were mounted on the thinnest cheapest support I have ever seen, naturally the supports were broke and the speakers were hanging inside the door by their wires.

Lifelong GM fan here, but things are really, really, messed up, with the entire Auto industry in general.

35k for a vehicle built in Mexico with Chinese crap parts, Explain that to me please.........
yeah, but you're helping the Big-O too as a sweet bonus.. laugh laugh


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


I got sick of paying for Detroit junk. So I guess we're even.


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I agree, the new trucks are very ugly........ all of them.

Buy American, they are more than good enough. I won't buy a GM anymore. I daily drove my 87 Ford for 20 years, now I have a 2007 F-150. 5.4L, 2wd, I can get 20 highway. No problems worth mentioning.

My first truck was a used 70 Toyota Hi-Lux. Toyota's etc. are good....... but not good enough for me to consider one again.




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Originally Posted by TERRY8mm


I buy GM full size for my business, I need 3/4 and 1 tons. Otherwise it would be 15 Tundras outside my shop.

How anyone can say GM's ride well is beyond me. Even the few 1500's I have ride like the proverbial log truck.


You just acknowledged your experience is with 3/4 and 1 ton Heavy Duty GM's and presumably some work truck 1500's, then you try to compare the ride quality?

I guarantee you couldn't tell the difference, with a blind fold on, between a crew cab Sierra SLT etc., and a comparably equipped Tundra, if I put a gun to your head.

Compare a Tacoma and a Sierra and even blind folded, it'll be an easy choice, though.



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If I were to buy a new truck, it would look an awful lot loke that.

Minus the training wheels, of course. smile (I don't tow a fifth wheel.)

Originally Posted by Redneck
Originally Posted by Salmonella
Is it just me?

Damn I hate the looks of all the new pick ups.
Bulges, boxy looking, plastic everywhere.

I may have to buy a new one soon and am trying to cope with the new reality.

I drive A LOT.
Mileage and reliability are going to be my top criteria in finding a new ride.
I don't haul heavy trailers anymore, I'm going to retire soon and though I've liked full sized pickups most of my life, I am willing to downsize.

Silverado 1500?

F-150?

Or a rice burner?

Toyota Tacoma 4 door?

If you guys had to start over what would it be?
This ain't ugly to me:

[Linked Image]


And if I were to 'start over', I'd buy it's twin...


Originally Posted by ingwe
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Originally Posted by tzone
I like most of the new ones. Dodge Ram is the nicest looking right now, then Ford f-150, Tacoma, Tundra.



I agree with that, don't care for the looks of the boxes on the Fords really.

I've never been a Chevy/GMC fan, but used to think their trucks looked nice. Now they just look like pop can aluminum with a few bends (very cheap looking)


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In 2006 I bought a new Tundra... The cheapest built truck I have ever owned. By the time it had 30,000 miles on it the seats were wore out and the tailgate was caved in, from loading a 500lb motorcycle in the bed. I now own a 2011 Ford F150 that gets 19 to 20 around town and around 24 on the road, as long as I keep it under 70. I can also haul a motorcycle in the bed without it caving in.


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
Here's some instructions for your "better product"

http://www.toyota.com/recall/pedal.html


Since you started it, I'm gonna help you!

Starting with Government Motors (GM)

GM to recall nearly 50000
GM recalls more than 6000 vans, SUVs
Saturn Recalls 254000
GM recalls 20,000 minivans for brakes
GM Recalls 50000 Crossover SUVs
GM Recalls 10000 Full-Size Pickups
General Motors Co. (GM) is recalling 6159
GM RECALL: LIST OF 1.5M VEHICLES
General Motors has announced a recall of approximately 570000

I could go on and on and on, with GM, but I think you get the picture

Now for some Ford


2013 FORD recall lookup. *Yeah, they already got them*
2012 FORD recall lookup.
2011 FORD recall lookup.
2010 FORD recall lookup.
2009 FORD recall lookup.
2008 FORD recall lookup.
2007 FORD recall lookup.
2006 FORD recall lookup.
2005 FORD recall lookup.
2004 FORD recall lookup.
2003 FORD recall lookup.
2002 FORD recall lookup.
2001 FORD recall lookup.
2000 FORD recall lookup.
1999 FORD recall lookup.
1998 FORD recall lookup.
1997 FORD recall lookup.
1996 FORD recall lookup.
1995 FORD recall lookup.
1994 FORD recall lookup.
1993 FORD recall lookup.
1992 FORD recall lookup.
1991 FORD recall lookup.
1990 FORD recall lookup.
1989 FORD recall lookup.
1988 FORD recall lookup.
1987 FORD recall lookup.
1986 FORD recall lookup.
1985 FORD recall lookup.
1984 FORD recall lookup.
1983 FORD recall lookup.
1982 FORD recall lookup.
1981 FORD recall lookup.
1980 FORD recall lookup.
1979 FORD recall lookup.
1978 FORD recall lookup.
1977 FORD recall lookup.
1976 FORD recall lookup.
1975 FORD recall lookup.
1974 FORD recall lookup.
1973 FORD recall lookup.
1972 FORD recall lookup.
1971 FORD recall lookup.
1970 FORD recall lookup.
1969 FORD recall lookup.
1968 FORD recall lookup.
1967 FORD recall lookup.
1966 FORD recall lookup.
1965 FORD recall lookup.

I dont know how many pages there are of Ford recalls, so I just listed the years.


119K Chrylser 300s, Dodge Chargers
Chrysler Recalling Roughly 750000

I could have found more, but I got tired of doing the copy/paste thing.

Anytime you need more help, just let me know!



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If I were buying new I would seriously be considering the Chevy 1500 with the 6.2L 400+ HP engine. The new 2500 is redesigned and from what I have read is a darn fine truck if such capacity is needed.


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Drove a 2004 GMC Sierra 2500HD until this past Friday. Biggest POS on the road.

Looked for a 4 door Tacoma but could not find anything I could even come close to affording.

Ended up with a 2011 F-150 with 10K on it. We shall see how it holds up.

My mechanic is wearing black and trying to figure out how to pay his kid's college bill. Hopefully it stays that way.


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Originally Posted by Kenneth
Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


I have a 2002 z71 sitting in my driveway,I bought it thinking I was supporting my fellow Americans,

When I found out it was made in Mexico with Chinese parts, Well,You have no Idea how pissed I was.

BY coincidence, it happens to likely to be the most troublesome rusted POS I have ever owned,

Last week was power window regulators, this week right front bearing.

As I have fixed many of these issue's myself, I just laugh when Dealership and supply houses recommend OEM parts,

In my repairs I have seen the crap parts GM used to build these vehicles.

Simple things like the tailgate cables, an immediate recall back in 02-04 because the cables were snapping from just lowering the tailgate,

I replaced the window regulator last week, GM's ideas inside that door were as cheap as possible, The speakers were mounted on the thinnest cheapest support I have ever seen, naturally the supports were broke and the speakers were hanging inside the door by their wires.

Lifelong GM fan here, but things are really, really, messed up, with the entire Auto industry in general.

35k for a vehicle built in Mexico with Chinese crap parts, Explain that to me please.........



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I don't think i could ever be convinced to buy another G.M. product. Forgetting, the government, union, envovlement. I had a s10blazer, at 50k transmission was squirting oil and caused a fire. Traded it in on a 4x4chevy pickup. At 50k, guess what, transmission caused engine fire. That truck had just about everything break on it. What really got me was a G.M. unannounced recall on paint peeling. In other words you had to know about it. About three weeks in a garage and they gave me a new paint job. It loved the garage more than it did me. Being stupid, i was looking for a new truck and looked at a chevy. The truck had a idiot light measuring transmission temps. Salesman told me it was an abundance of caution. Yeah right. I then bought a 98dodge 3/4ton 4x4diesel, which has been the best truck i ever owned. Except the nissan 4x4 the mexicans wanted for their import/export business.


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Ugly is as ugly does....

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We bought a 2011 Dodge 1500 SLT QC 4x4 for my wife last fall. The 5.7 Hemi is getting 16-17 mixed city/hwy and 20MPG hi-way for us. with all the rebates we paid under $27k for it which was $8k-$9k cheaper than Toyota or Ford at the time. They were all nice trucks but an extra $9k in the pocket was the decision maker for us.

I have had good luck with my 2002 Dodge 3500 diesel, with 78k on the clock I'll be keeping it for a while longer.


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Traded this one one a 2009 F-150

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for this one about two months ago a 2011 F-150

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de 73's Archie - W7ACT

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Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


Tundras are manufactured in San Antonio, Texas. Tacomas are built in Fremont, California.

GM trucks are built in Flint and Indiana.

Ford trucks are built in Kansas City and Louisville

Nissan trucks are built in Tennessee and Mississippi.

Now what?



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I will take reliability over looks any day.


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...and most for most people, buying a new truck is not like buying underwear, it's a major investment. They just can't afford to throw that much money away on inferior products.


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Originally Posted by SamOlson
I would look for a 'new' F150 with about 12K miles on it.


Why would you want to buy a worn out truck? grin


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Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy
Originally Posted by cooperfan
You guys driving Toyota's and Nissan's make me sick. I know I'm biased living in Detroit area, but geez


Tundras are manufactured in San Antonio, Texas. Tacomas are built in Fremont, California.

GM trucks are built in Flint and Indiana.

Ford trucks are built in Kansas City and Louisville

Nissan trucks are built in Tennessee and Mississippi.

Now what?


Tacomas are now made in Mexico I believe it was the 2011 model year. They had to close the Fremont plant because Gubermint motors [bleep] up and had to be saved. Waiting intently on Hyundai Large truck and whether Toyo makes a diesel tacoma to be sold in the states

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Unless you need to tow a lot, Toyota is it in the 1/2 ton or less market

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Originally Posted by JDK
I will take reliability over looks any day.

I have both.. laugh laugh


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Originally Posted by Redneck
Originally Posted by JDK
I will take reliability over looks any day.

I have both.. laugh laugh


You? or the truck? whistle

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Actually -- Tacoma production is being moved to San Antonio after GM tried to dump the union plant in Fremont on them... They open production there in July.



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Can anyone really gain any useful info from topics like these?

For every 10 dudes that have had a Ford that went 300K without a single breakdown, there are 10 more with sob stories about the POS Ford they've owned.

Same thing goes for GM,Dodge,Toyota,Nissan,etc.


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One of the real advantages to the new trucks it their windshields stay a lot cleaner. They are so butt ugly no self respecting bug will hit one.


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Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy
Actually -- Tacoma production is being moved to San Antonio after GM tried to dump the union plant in Fremont on them... They open production there in July.


Just going on what I saw on the window stickers on the 2011 and 2012. Moving to the San Antonio plant would be a great idea. I hope they start importing the diesel version. I will be the first to lineup when they do

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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy
Actually -- Tacoma production is being moved to San Antonio after GM tried to dump the union plant in Fremont on them... They open production there in July.


Just going on what I saw on the window stickers on the 2011 and 2012. Moving to the San Antonio plant would be a great idea. I hope they start importing the diesel version. I will be the first to lineup when they do


I'm with ya there...



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Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


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Not much chance. EPA thinks 50 MPG diesel is worse than 15 MPG gas. Our brain trust at work. frown


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Originally Posted by LRW
Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


Yep and the resale value on Toyotas reflect that. Spoken by someone that never owned or drove one. WHat Planet do you live on?

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Originally Posted by LRW
Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


Can't speak for the dead guys, but the live ones I know felt that way for about 50 years, then they realized they were getting screwed more by America than by other countries. I got news for all the "junk" haters...putting down the other guys stuff, don't make your stuff any better.


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More of the Toyota truck is made in the USA by Americans than any other truck according to what I have read.


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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by LRW
Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


Yep and the resale value on Toyotas reflect that. Spoken by someone that never owned or drove one. WHat Planet do you live on?


I Have owned several.. all cheap built. As far as resale value, there is a sucker born every second. As for the planet I live on... not sure anymore with all the aliens around here. crazy


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Originally Posted by LRW
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by LRW
Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


Yep and the resale value on Toyotas reflect that. Spoken by someone that never owned or drove one. WHat Planet do you live on?


I Have owned several.. all cheap built. As far as resale value, there is a sucker born every second. As for the planet I live on... not sure anymore with all the aliens around here. crazy


Yea they are POS they only go 1/2million miles properly maintained. Well if you bought several then you must qualify as a sucker. BTW name something better built then a Toyota truck.

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Originally Posted by LRW
Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


Hilarious actually -

Do some research chief -


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Originally Posted by Scott F
More of the Toyota truck is made in the USA by Americans than any other truck according to what I have read.


Yup, manufactured right here with 80% American made parts.


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Originally Posted by LRW
Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


Shhhh! Not so loud! My Tundra might hear you and get the crazy notion that it's not an excellent truck!



I'll grant that it has a soft ride and is very quiet inside. These are GOOD things for the 99% of the time that most trucks are being used as, well, cars. However I've hauled ~2000 lbs in mine many times and it does just fine.



I have a tale of how well-engineered the driveline is, but I'm mentally cringing at the thought of reliving my world-class stupidity.... keep saying how bad they are and I might just have to dredge it back out. Suffice it to say... they are pretty damn bulletproof.



(talking '06 here; I have no experience with the newer ones)

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My chance of ever buying another truck are exactly equal to my chances to winning the lottery but if I did I woule look hard at Toyota.

My oldest son, another truck driver, and I have joked about if we ever won the lottery that we would buy single screw Kenworth tractors with studio sleepers, remove the fifth wheel and replace it with a pickup bed. It would put all you southern boys into redneck shame. grin


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I don't like mine that much... just buying MADE IN AMERICA by AMERICANS. smile


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Yeap... I was a sucker, and so are you if you think a Toyota is better than anything else, The new Fords are the best on the road right Now!!! that may change.. next year with the next generation Chevy. Show me one with a 1/2 million miles. I have seen a few with 300,000 worn slap out!!! I have also seen a few Fords and Chevys with 300,000 they where worn slap out also. They all last about the same if you take care of them, but two me Ford and Chevy and Dodge are built stronger.


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You're probably right there, but that's not how I drive. I don't need half a million miles on a vehicle. I need 50k off road, and that's where the Toyotas shine.


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You guys arguing about truck wanna-bes. Kenworth or Freightliner, 500 plus horses and 13 speeds. That is a truck. No air brakes and no jake = no truck.


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I am sorry...I will be quiet!!! I am just messin with you guys anyway. One is good as the other. I just like Fords this year, next year it may be a Toyota Chevy or Dodge. grin


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My next truck will be another Dodge Ram 1500 but this time with the Hemi. I know most don't like them but after driving mine for 5 years I have a hard time seeing myself in anything but another Ram.

Never been much of a Chevy truck fan but lately i've seen several new one's on the road and I thought they were nice looking rigs.


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Just so happens my Toyota Tacoma is on the assembly line today in San Antonio.


I went with the 6 speed.

I hope to see it late next week.

After shopping for the past 2 months I decided to just buy a new one. The resale on Toyota Tacoma's is unreal, might as well buy a new one.

I all most had a 2011 with 6,500k on it and someone bought it while I was test driving it.

Shopping C/L for good deals if you wait just a couple of hours it's gone!


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I had a 2009 Ram, traded for the 2011 F150.. Still don't know who got the better end on that deal. the Ram was a hell of a Truck. just a little hard on gas, but the Hemi was nice.


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Originally Posted by Scott F
You guys arguing about truck wanna-bes. Kenworth or Freightliner, 500 plus horses and 13 speeds. That is a truck. No air brakes and no jake = no truck.


Your right on that.....I used to drive a truck until I had back surgery in 2003, Drove a little in 2005 and 2006, I sure do miss it.


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No doubt that the Ram isn't a gas mizer but I do love the rumble of a good running Hemi, plus I think they are one of the better looking trucks on the market today.


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Originally Posted by LRW
Yeap... I was a sucker, and so are you if you think a Toyota is better than anything else, The new Fords are the best on the road right Now!!! that may change.. next year with the next generation Chevy. Show me one with a 1/2 million miles. I have seen a few with 300,000 worn slap out!!! I have also seen a few Fords and Chevys with 300,000 they where worn slap out also. They all last about the same if you take care of them, but two me Ford and Chevy and Dodge are built stronger.


I just went and checked for a worn slap out on my Tundra. Whew! It's still within spec. wink grin


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The last 2 Z71's I had were great, both getting up to 200k on them before I got rid of them. The Gov't Motors deal made me buy a 2010 F150 Lariat SuperCrew 4x4 last year w/24k on it. The Z71's seats are slightly more comfy for me, but the room in the Ford trumps that, especially the spacious back seat. I get 14 in town and 19 on the hwy, and used to get 20 mpg before Uncle Sam crammed E10 ethanol down our throats. Very, very quiet and smooth ride in the Ford. I like it very much. We've had several of the big Tundra's at work also. They're nothing special for the way we use them, and fuel mileage is pitiful in the 5.7's in our experience. 12-13 in town and 16-17 on the hwy is as good as we've gotten, and lots of times much closer to 16. They ride good though.


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Toyota is headquartered in Aichi Japan. All of the profits from your sales go directly back to Japan and help strengthen that country and economy. I am utterly disgusted by what I am reading on this topic and surprised that some of you bash American companies like you have, you should be ashamed. You guys in the west are talking about assembly plants, well come here once and I will show you some plants shut down because of your buying decisions. I wouldn't give 2 cents for a Tacoma.

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You guys don't get it. If we could buy ALMOST as much truck from the old American manufacturors for the same money...we would. We're not talking about spending a few cents more for a locally grown tomato.


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Originally Posted by LRW
Originally Posted by Scott F
You guys arguing about truck wanna-bes. Kenworth or Freightliner, 500 plus horses and 13 speeds. That is a truck. No air brakes and no jake = no truck.


Your right on that.....I used to drive a truck until I had back surgery in 2003, Drove a little in 2005 and 2006, I sure do miss it.


I don't miss packed snow and ice on mountain passes all winter but the view from the driver's seat of a real truck is hard to beat. Then these guys talk about trading in a truck with only 500,000 miles. If you change your oil every 60,000 miles a real truck will last at least a million miles.

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Originally Posted by cooperfan
Toyota is headquartered in Aichi Japan. All of the profits from your sales go directly back to Japan and help strengthen that country and economy. I am utterly disgusted by what I am reading on this topic and surprised that some of you bash American companies like you have, you should be . You guys in the west are talking about assembly plants, well come here once and I will show you some plants shut down because of your buying decisions. I wouldn't give 2 cents for a Tacoma.


Your union brothers have gotten you to drink the Kool-aid. When I bought my Tundra, it was in WI, at a dealership. Last I checked WI was in the USA. The salesman was a nice young American male in his late 20's with a wife and a new baby. He didn't mention anything about having to send a paycheck to Japan on each sale of Tundra's he made. They also sold Mercedes.

Plants are being shut down because until a few years ago, Ford, GM, and Dodge were pumping out crap for quality. Toyota stepped up their game and caused the other two, Dodge and Ford to build a good, if not great truck. Yeah, I said two, because you couldn't give me a chevy. I'd be too embarrassed to keep it in my yard. BTDT.

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I sell these, and I'm damn proud of it! Made in Texas, by an American company. Caterpillar

http://www.drivecat.com/

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Nice for a light truck.


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Originally Posted by tzone


Your union brothers have gotten you to drink the Kool-aid. When I bought my Tundra, it was in WI, at a dealership. Last I checked WI was in the USA. The salesman was a nice young American male in his late 20's with a wife and a new baby. He didn't mention anything about having to send a paycheck to Japan on each sale of Tundra's he made. They also sold Mercedes.

Plants are being shut down because until a few years ago, Ford, GM, and Dodge were pumping out crap for quality. Toyota stepped up their game and caused the other two, Dodge and Ford to build a good, if not great truck. Yeah, I said two, because you couldn't give me a chevy. I'd be too embarrassed to keep it in my yard. BTDT.


I will admit, it is nice to get the "we can't compete with the cost of foriegn labor and parts" argument out of the way.


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I crossed this minor milestone a few weeks ago, halfway to my goal............

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our super here has 330K on his 2004 Dodge Cummins 3 water pumps 3rd set of tires and one trans cooler. still gets 21MPG every day.

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At 1/10 that milage, you won't be able to see the gauge on mine, for the dirt.


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Originally Posted by Mntngoat
our super here has 330K on his 2004 Dodge Cummins 3 water pumps 3rd set of tires and one trans cooler. still gets 21MPG every day.

ML


I have no problem with other guy's stuff. They have a problem with mine.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
At 1/10 that milage, you won't be able to see the gauge on mine, for the dirt.


You might say I'm a little OCD.

Wait, make that CDO, its like OCD, but the letters are in proper order........ crazy laugh


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TFF


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Originally Posted by 700LH
Quote
Was considering a Tacoma Pre-runner with e-locker until I saw this clip.


Tacoma TRD, 4X4 plus locking differential


Locking differential is a plus even in a 4x4



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Originally Posted by cooperfan


Now you talking TRUCK! grin

I would love to spend a day in one of those.


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Originally Posted by badger
Originally Posted by ltppowell
At 1/10 that milage, you won't be able to see the gauge on mine, for the dirt.


You might say I'm a little OCD.

Wait, make that CDO, its like OCD, but the letters are in proper order........ crazy laugh



laugh laugh laugh


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Originally Posted by Scott F
Originally Posted by LRW
Originally Posted by Scott F
You guys arguing about truck wanna-bes. Kenworth or Freightliner, 500 plus horses and 13 speeds. That is a truck. No air brakes and no jake = no truck.


Your right on that.....I used to drive a truck until I had back surgery in 2003, Drove a little in 2005 and 2006, I sure do miss it.


I don't miss packed snow and ice on mountain passes all winter but the view from the driver's seat of a real truck is hard to beat. Then these guys talk about trading in a truck with only 500,000 miles. If you change your oil every 60,000 miles a real truck will last at least a million miles.


The last few years.... I drove NC to Laredo TX to memphis TN back to Carolina. Week over. It was a great run.


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I spent about 95% of my time going from Port Townsend, WA to Kelpwna, BC, Richmond, BC, Calgary, AB, and Edmonton, AB. I never got to see AB in the summer. Crowsnest Pass in the winter is.... well it is memorable some trips.

Hauled nine rolls of paper standing on end sitting on rubber mats. The net weighted around 60,000 and my gross was between 99,000 and 102,000. Make damned sure you did not tip one over or thing would go down hill real fast.


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
Toyota is headquartered in Aichi Japan. All of the profits from your sales go directly back to Japan and help strengthen that country and economy. I am utterly disgusted by what I am reading on this topic and surprised that some of you bash American companies like you have, you should be ashamed. You guys in the west are talking about assembly plants, well come here once and I will show you some plants shut down because of your buying decisions. I wouldn't give 2 cents for a Tacoma.


Hey man! Doesnt look like your doing to well, convincing others that they shouldnt by toyota.

Want me to help you, some more?


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
I sell these, and I'm damn proud of it! Made in Texas, by an American company. Caterpillar

http://www.drivecat.com/


I just figured I'd help you some more, since you arent doing so well.

Caterpillar built its first Russian facility in the town of Tosno, located near St. Petersburg, Russia. It was completed in 16 months and occupied in November 1999. It had the first electrical substation built in the Leningrad Oblast since the Communist government was dissolved on December 26, 1991. The facility was built under harsh winter conditions, where the temperature was below &#8722;25�C. The facility construction was managed by the Lemmink�inen Group located in Helsinki, Finland.[citation needed]

The $125M Caterpillar Suzhou, People's Republic of China facility, manufactures medium wheel loaders and motorgraders, primarily for the Asian market. The first machine is scheduled for production in March 2009. URS Ausino, in San Francisco, California, manages facility construction.[citation needed]

Caterpillar has manufactured in Brazil since 1960.[29] In 2010 the company announced plans to further expand production of backhoe and small wheel loaders with a new factory.[30]


Yeah, Cat is 100% American!

Go try to blow smoke up someone else's azz!


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They are a world wide company headquartered in Peoria Illinois, Azz Clown

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Originally Posted by Oldmanms2003
Originally Posted by cooperfan
I sell these, and I'm damn proud of it! Made in Texas, by an American company. Caterpillar

http://www.drivecat.com/


I just figured I'd help you some more, since you arent doing so well.

Caterpillar built its first Russian facility in the town of Tosno, located near St. Petersburg, Russia. It was completed in 16 months and occupied in November 1999. It had the first electrical substation built in the Leningrad Oblast since the Communist government was dissolved on December 26, 1991. The facility was built under harsh winter conditions, where the temperature was below &#8722;25�C. The facility construction was managed by the Lemmink�inen Group located in Helsinki, Finland.[citation needed]

The $125M Caterpillar Suzhou, People's Republic of China facility, manufactures medium wheel loaders and motorgraders, primarily for the Asian market. The first machine is scheduled for production in March 2009. URS Ausino, in San Francisco, California, manages facility construction.[citation needed]

Caterpillar has manufactured in Brazil since 1960.[29] In 2010 the company announced plans to further expand production of backhoe and small wheel loaders with a new factory.[30]


Yeah, Cat is 100% American!

Go try to blow smoke up someone else's azz!


Some folks just don't understand the tenants of Capitalism.


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
They are a world wide company headquartered in Peoria
Illinois, Azz Clown


Heck, I know that. I've worked at the security center in Decatur, IL.

The point I was making, since you cant understand, is that the Great American Caterpillar Co. built plants in other countries. By building them in the other countries, instead of the US, they gave away jobs. Jobs that are needed here in the US.

So the proud, high and mighty, I work for an American Company, is actually working for a company that is doing the same thing that Toyota, Nissan, etc. are doing. Creating jobs in other countries and selling their products there.

Did you vote for obama?

Bet you wont admit it!


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
Toyota is headquartered in Aichi Japan. All of the profits from your sales go directly back to Japan and help strengthen that country and economy. I am utterly disgusted by what I am reading on this topic and surprised that some of you bash American companies like you have, you should be ashamed. You guys in the west are talking about assembly plants, well come here once and I will show you some plants shut down because of your buying decisions. I wouldn't give 2 cents for a Tacoma.


The fact that you wrote that post on a chinese computer is what makes you so clueless. grin


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Originally Posted by Scott F
Originally Posted by LRW
Originally Posted by Scott F
You guys arguing about truck wanna-bes. Kenworth or Freightliner, 500 plus horses and 13 speeds. That is a truck. No air brakes and no jake = no truck.


Your right on that.....I used to drive a truck until I had back surgery in 2003, Drove a little in 2005 and 2006, I sure do miss it.


I don't miss packed snow and ice on mountain passes all winter but the view from the driver's seat of a real truck is hard to beat. Then these guys talk about trading in a truck with only 500,000 miles. If you change your oil every 60,000 miles a real truck will last at least a million miles.


Scott ~ You have definitely got that right from the driver's seat in a Cab-over you do get an awsome veiw of some seat covers in vehicles passing you on the left. Awwwh, I do miss those days driving over the road in a Cab-over Mack, Freightliner, Kwobbler and Peter car as I've seen a number of things not suitable for relating on a family oriented site going on on the seat covers in those cars.

I guess I'm just a dirty old man!


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Originally Posted by Rancho_Loco
Originally Posted by cooperfan
Toyota is headquartered in Aichi Japan. All of the profits from your sales go directly back to Japan and help strengthen that country and economy. I am utterly disgusted by what I am reading on this topic and surprised that some of you bash American companies like you have, you should be ashamed. You guys in the west are talking about assembly plants, well come here once and I will show you some plants shut down because of your buying decisions. I wouldn't give 2 cents for a Tacoma.


The fact that you wrote that post on a chinese computer is what makes you so clueless. grin


LOL


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Originally Posted by W7ACT
Originally Posted by Scott F
Originally Posted by LRW
Originally Posted by Scott F
You guys arguing about truck wanna-bes. Kenworth or Freightliner, 500 plus horses and 13 speeds. That is a truck. No air brakes and no jake = no truck.


Your right on that.....I used to drive a truck until I had back surgery in 2003, Drove a little in 2005 and 2006, I sure do miss it.


I don't miss packed snow and ice on mountain passes all winter but the view from the driver's seat of a real truck is hard to beat. Then these guys talk about trading in a truck with only 500,000 miles. If you change your oil every 60,000 miles a real truck will last at least a million miles.


Scott ~ You have definitely got that right from the driver's seat in a Cab-over you do get an awsome veiw of some seat covers in vehicles passing you on the left. Awwwh, I do miss those days driving over the road in a Cab-over Mack, Freightliner, Kwobbler and Peter car as I've seen a number of things not suitable for relating on a family oriented site going on on the seat covers in those cars.

I guess I'm just a dirty old man!


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Just kidding! grin

Back in the early 70's, I drove for about 2 years. Mostly a 3/4 cab Int. with a 290 cummins, 13 speed ranger, 411 rear-end. Did a little time in a cab-over 10 speed and a little in a old tri-plex. Talk about hard to shift! Never did really get the hang of it.
And your right about the scenery! blush grin


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
They are a world wide company headquartered in Peoria Illinois, Azz Clown


Isnt Cooper the azzwhole who said we should all line up to kiss Obama's ass?

pack sand ,fool. laugh


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
I sell these, and I'm damn proud of it! Made in Texas, by an American company. Caterpillar

http://www.drivecat.com/


One of Barry Hussein's union puppets.

I'll stick with Toyota trucks built in the US over a Chinese built GM products

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This is a really good thread.
Thanks guys.
Funny, the reason I'm even posting it is because my Kid threw a rod in his Toyota.
The wife & I figured we could sell him our Chevy at a good price and get a new ride of our own.

I'm really enjoying the conversation, carry on...


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Originally Posted by fluffy
Originally Posted by cooperfan
They are a world wide company headquartered in Peoria Illinois, Azz Clown


Isnt Cooper the azzwhole who said we should all line up to kiss Obama's ass?

pack sand ,fool. laugh


Dont know if it was him or not. Acts like some young kid, just got out of school, got a good job, and has schit for brains.

Never did find out if he voted for osamie or not.


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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by bruinruin
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by tzone


The gm 5.7l get ate up by the Toyota 5.7l 10 of 10 times. Not even close.


Hasn't been a 5.7L GM truck engine in over a decade, so I'm not sure what you're comparing.....



I think that was tzone's point, that the only thing the old GM 5.7 and the newer Toyota 5.7 have in common is similar displacement.


Perhaps that is what he meant.

Just crazy all these comparisons (by anyone) of engines and trucks between today and even just a decade ago. The technology has changed so much.


That was my point. You really can't compare it anymore. The new motors, on all the trucks are so much more powerful, with less. You'd have to mod the hell out of a chey 350 (5.7l) to get the 400hp that Toyota gets now. Same can be said for the Ford 5.0. Same displacement as the old motor, much, much better technology and a better product, imo.


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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Tundra is uglier than Rosie O'Donnells arse. Other than that, it's fine.

Love the looks of the Sierra, but I won't buy another GM until they are no longer Government Motors.

Tacoma has a terrible ride, worse handling, gutless engine. It's cheap though.

F-150 Good truck, but way overpriced now.

Ram - It's still a Dodge.


You're joking right? You're kidding right? You're just trying to be funny, right? Tundras, ugly????????? What are you looking at? At least they don't look like a shoe box or a brick going down the road like the big 3 do. Tundra has sleek, smooth lines. Rounded hood, fenders, and roof. They have some styling at least. They look like they are ready for the track... Not like a loaf of bread going down the road like the boxie, big 3 do. You make me laugh. Jealous I guess.

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Originally Posted by wyoguide
Unless you need to tow a lot, Toyota is it in the 1/2 ton or less market


My Tundra has a 10,600 lbs towing capacity. That's not to shabby...I'm on my 4th Tundra. Have loved them all, never hada bit of trouble with ANY of them. They are reliable. Voted the most reliable full size pick up for the last 6 years in a row. I'll take reliability anytime. And I get that from Toyota. We are on out 4 Camry XLE too. Love those Toyotas. Bullet proof.

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Originally Posted by LRW
Toyota trucks are the cheapest built... most car like truck on the road, frames rusting in two , tailgates that Break in two. I wonder what all the men that lost there lives at Pearl Harbor would think!!! You can have your Toyota junk confused


Here we go again.....................................

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Bought mine last year, Silverado 3500HD Duramax and Allison. Had an 06 that was great. Wife wanted a 5th wheel.. To big for the 2500HD. No issues now.

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Have owned F250 & Explorer, 2500 GMC Suburban & Yukon, Landcruiser & Tundra 4X4's plus Chevy, GMC, Ford & Dodge 2WD trucks. Explorer was completely free of any failures for the 3 years I owned it. GMC's were the most expensive to keep running w/ very early failures of stuff like w/s wiper motors and steering column bearings... Toyota quality has been noticeably higher than the others.

My 2000 V8 Tundra 4-dr extra cab seems the perfect size, able to take full-size plywood between the wheel wells, and is perhaps the most comfortable and nicest driver, but gets around 11.5 mpg around town.

Though I have no need for a new truck, I would look at the Tacoma, as the Tundra is now a much larger vehicle.


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I was told, on good authority, that the Ford 250's and 350's are getting a majorly facelift for 2013. I'm in the market, but I'm fixin' to wait for a look-see.


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if Toyota made a 3/4 or one ton I would have one, but until then I am stuck with my 07 Chevy 2500 HD, I really don't like the truck but I have broke too many half ton axles. I really wish i could get a 3/4 ton Diesel Toyota


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If Toyota made three quarter and one ton trucks and the head up their asses EPA would allow new diesels then I am guessing Toyota would be unstoppable in the light truck market.


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Originally Posted by cooperfan
Toyota is headquartered in Aichi Japan. All of the profits from your sales go directly back to Japan and help strengthen that country and economy. I am utterly disgusted by what I am reading on this topic and surprised that some of you bash American companies like you have, you should be ashamed. You guys in the west are talking about assembly plants, well come here once and I will show you some plants shut down because of your buying decisions. I wouldn't give 2 cents for a Tacoma.


Who gives a [bleep] about your opinion? You are obviously an under-educated simpleton just chiming in.

Toyota has more plants in this country then the big 3 and they have a design center here as well. They have vendors located in this country which supply most of the parts used in these cars/trucks. They constantly upgrade state of the art factories here unlike GM,Ford and Chrysler which flee to other countries. If they made a pos like GM and GM made the better product then GM would be in demand and not the other way around. GM lays off people. Toyota hires people and builds plants even in a economic downturn. Toyota's net corporate profits go to Japan and the rest of the world that invests in their stock. They are the number 1 car company in the world for a reason.

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Originally Posted by cooperfan
I sell these, and I'm damn proud of it! Made in Texas, by an American company. Caterpillar

http://www.drivecat.com/



Cooperman I'm curious whats the ballpark on those CT 660's

ML


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Originally Posted by hunter01
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Tundra is uglier than Rosie O'Donnells arse. Other than that, it's fine.

Love the looks of the Sierra, but I won't buy another GM until they are no longer Government Motors.

Tacoma has a terrible ride, worse handling, gutless engine. It's cheap though.

F-150 Good truck, but way overpriced now.

Ram - It's still a Dodge.


You're joking right? You're kidding right? You're just trying to be funny, right? Tundras, ugly????????? What are you looking at? At least they don't look like a shoe box or a brick going down the road like the big 3 do. Tundra has sleek, smooth lines. Rounded hood, fenders, and roof. They have some styling at least. They look like they are ready for the track... Not like a loaf of bread going down the road like the boxie, big 3 do. You make me laugh. Jealous I guess.


Jealous? LOL not only are you a commie, you're not real bright. I have a 2009 $41K Hummer Alpha H3T and a 2011 $38K Toyota 4Runner Trail edition in my drive. That's not counting my wife's new $50k sport sedan or the 2009 $42k SUV I let my live in nanny drive.

I buy vehicles almost as often as I buy rifles. If I wanted a Tundra, I would buy one and may very well do so one day. It does not change the fact that they are currently fugly.


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I require a manual transmission. I believe the only remaining fullsize truck with a manual is a 1 ton Dodge diesel. I don't want a diesel.

So ... I stick with my 2008 Nissan Frontier. It has pluses and minuses.

On-pavement, it's a good truck. Considering it has about 60 HP more than my dad's F150, it's no shock that gas mileage is not exceptional. On very long freeway trips on flat ground where I can run cruise control I approach 20 mpg. Flogging it around town, I get about 8-9. Long term average is probably about 18. Considering the truck's performance, I think that is ok. Good amenities, comfortable, reliable. Probably the only negative I'd say for on-pavement use is the turning radius is pretty bad for a truck its size.

Off highway, well, it's a good highway truck despite having Nissan's nismo offroad package ... 4 wheel limited slips, selectable locker, 4WD, skid plates, etc. All of the off-road features are poorly done. The 4WD is electronic, not manually select, and is quite slow to engage. Same for getting into 4Lo and engaging the locker. The limited slips are brake based rather than differential based so they work by slowing down the spinning tire, not by locking the spinning tire to the traction tire. The result is disappointing. The truck's wheel wells are tight front to rear so you can't add a small lift and bigger tires, you've got to either cut sheet metal or lift about 5 inches to put the whole larger tire UNDER the wheel well.

Basically, I'd say for primarily pavement use, where you don't have to parallel park a lot, and if you don't plan to modify it, the Nissan is a good truck. Otherwise, get something else.

If I didn't have that thing about hating automatic transmissions, I'd get an F250, then swap in taller but softer aftermarket springs.


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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter


Who gives a [bleep] about your opinion? You are obviously an under-educated simpleton just chiming in.

Toyota has more plants in this country then the big 3 and they have a design center here as well. They have vendors located in this country which supply most of the parts used in these cars/trucks. They constantly upgrade state of the art factories here unlike GM,Ford and Chrysler which flee to other countries. If they made a pos like GM and GM made the better product then GM would be in demand and not the other way around. GM lays off people. Toyota hires people and builds plants even in a economic downturn. Toyota's net corporate profits go to Japan and the rest of the world that invests in their stock. They are the number 1 car company in the world for a reason.


Where the hell did you pull that shyt from? GM alone has 3 times the number of assembly plants here in the U.S. as Toyota and 5+ times the total number of plants including engine and components.

Even smaller Ford has twice as many assembly plants here as Toyota.



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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter


Who gives a [bleep] about your opinion? You are obviously an under-educated simpleton just chiming in.

Toyota has more plants in this country then the big 3 and they have a design center here as well. They have vendors located in this country which supply most of the parts used in these cars/trucks. They constantly upgrade state of the art factories here unlike GM,Ford and Chrysler which flee to other countries. If they made a pos like GM and GM made the better product then GM would be in demand and not the other way around. GM lays off people. Toyota hires people and builds plants even in a economic downturn. Toyota's net corporate profits go to Japan and the rest of the world that invests in their stock. They are the number 1 car company in the world for a reason.


Where the hell did you pull that shyt from? GM alone has 3 times the number of assembly plants here in the U.S. as Toyota and 5+ times the total number of plants including engine and components.

Even smaller Ford has twice as many assembly plants here as Toyota.



HERE WE GO AGAIN II.......................

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I'm surprised the resident communist buys Toyota. You'll get mugged in Youngstown if your UAW buddies find out you're disparaging Government Motors.


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U.S. Assembly Plants:

Toyota -

TMMMS
TMMK
TMMTX
TMMI

4.... that's it, unless someone knows of another that isn't listed.

GM -

Arlington
Bowling Green
Hamtranck
Fairfax II
Flint
Ft. Wayne
Lansing Delta
Lansing Grand River
Lordstown
Shreveport
Spring Hill (scheduled to reopen)
Wentzville


12 to 4, pretty [bleep] simple math even Toyota leg humpers can understand... or not.




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Caterpillar trucks are NOT made by Caterpillar. THey are made for Cat by International/Navistar or whatever name International is using these days! They are marked/badged as Cat but you can buy the same truck with a Ford or GM nameplate on it, too. Cat got out of the truck business (highway) effective Jan. 1, 2009, and do not even make truck engines anymore. ALL of their truck engine manufacturing, design, engineering, etc,, including the plants making them was sold to Navistar, effective 1/1/2009. Cat DOES, under Navistar license, service them though! Please, just keep it straight. I've worked for Cat since 1/3/69. The only trucks currently made by Caaterpillar are OFF-ROAD trucks for construction and mining with capacities starting around 20 tons!

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Originally Posted by Foxbat
I'm surprised the resident communist buys Toyota. You'll get mugged in Youngstown if your UAW buddies find out you're disparaging Government Motors.


Hey azzhole, I've been following your posts in here for a while. You are one sick, twisited, mislead, ARROGANT guy..............You really like yourself, don't you...? Good thing, cuz nobody else does... GET HELP!

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Originally Posted by Salmonella
Is it just me?

Damn I hate the looks of all the new pick ups.
Bulges, boxy looking, plastic everywhere.

I may have to buy a new one soon and am trying to cope with the new reality.

I drive A LOT.
Mileage and reliability are going to be my top criteria in finding a new ride.
I don't haul heavy trailers anymore, I'm going to retire soon and though I've liked full sized pickups most of my life, I am willing to downsize.

Silverado 1500?

F-150?

Or a rice burner?

Toyota Tacoma 4 door?

If you guys had to start over what would it be?


Another Tacoma.

Ed


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My Toyota experience is limited to just 3; a 1995 Land Cruiser (RIP) that we bought at ~90k and ran to 180k before it was totaled last year... the '06 Tundra 4wdI bought new... and our '05 rav4 we just got to replace the Cruiser.

The Cruiser had (1) thing happen from 90k-180k miles. A caliper locked up and ate the rotor before my wife noticed it.

The Tundra has a failed tire-pressure sensor. 70k miles. I use it as a truck quite a bit. It's not babied. Love it. And flat hauls ass if you stomp it.

Too soon to say on the RAV. We did have to replace the alternator, which shocked everyone; even finding a rebuilt one was a little tricky as the pipeline hasn't filled yet because so few have failed. I suspect they got water in it when they cleaned the engine at the dealership. At any rate it seems to be a good car- knock on wood.

If I needed a truck for truly heavy duty "truck" stuff I'd be looking at F250 and 350 and maybe the big diesel Dodge. Personally I need a truck to be a wolf in sheep's clothing that is a truck when I want it to be but easy to deal with otherwise. My Tundra has been that in spades.

I'd buy another Toy in a second. Made in America is a very nice bonus.


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Originally Posted by hunter01
Originally Posted by Foxbat
I'm surprised the resident communist buys Toyota. You'll get mugged in Youngstown if your UAW buddies find out you're disparaging Government Motors.


Hey azzhole, I've been following your posts in here for a while. You are one sick, twisited, mislead, ARROGANT guy..............You really like yourself, don't you...? Good thing, cuz nobody else does... GET HELP!


Go cry to your union that you're being bullied on the internet. I'm sure they'll help you with your feelings.


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Originally Posted by Foxbat
U.S. Assembly Plants:

Toyota -

TMMMS
TMMK
TMMTX
TMMI

4.... that's it, unless someone knows of another that isn't listed.

GM -

Arlington
Bowling Green
Hamtranck
Fairfax II
Flint
Ft. Wayne
Lansing Delta
Lansing Grand River
Lordstown
Shreveport
Spring Hill (scheduled to reopen)
Wentzville


12 to 4, pretty [bleep] simple math even Toyota leg humpers can understand... or not.




The Shreveport plant is still open but, it is scheduled to close this summer.

Toyota has a large presence in the United States with six major assembly plants in Huntsville, Alabama; Georgetown, Kentucky; Princeton, Indiana; San Antonio, Texas; Buffalo, West Virginia and Blue Springs, Mississippi.

Last edited by Oldmanms2003; 05/24/12.

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Originally Posted by Oldmanms2003


The Shreveport plant is still open but, it is scheduled to close this summer.

Toyota has a large presence in the United States with six major assembly plants in Huntsville, Alabama; Georgetown, Kentucky; Princeton, Indiana; San Antonio, Texas; Buffalo, West Virginia and Blue Springs, Mississippi.


Buffalo and Huntsville are strictly engine/Transmission production. I didn't include GM engine/transmission plants or stamping plants or it would treble the total.

If we include engine and transmission assembly plants the totals jump to:

GM - 22

Toyota - 6

Now we're over 3:1 and ignoring another dozen U.S. GM plants that make everything else.

The earlier poster's claim was beyond exaggeration. It was an outright fabrication.


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What's your point?


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
What's your point?


Pretty obvious.

Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter



Toyota has more plants in this country then the big 3 and they have a design center here as well. They have vendors located in this country which supply most of the parts used in these cars/trucks. They constantly upgrade state of the art factories here unlike GM,Ford and Chrysler which flee to other countries. If they made a pos like GM and GM made the better product then GM would be in demand and not the other way around. GM lays off people. Toyota hires people and builds plants even in a economic downturn. Toyota's net corporate profits go to Japan and the rest of the world that invests in their stock. They are the number 1 car company in the world for a reason.


Where the hell did you pull that shyt from? GM alone has 3 times the number of assembly plants here in the U.S. as Toyota and 5+ times the total number of plants including engine and components.

Even smaller Ford has twice as many assembly plants here as Toyota.



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You expected me to go back pages? smile


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
You expected me to go back pages? smile


Naw, but I couldn't go find the earlier quote for you, without giving you some grief. wink



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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Oldmanms2003


The Shreveport plant is still open but, it is scheduled to close this summer.

Toyota has a large presence in the United States with six major assembly plants in Huntsville, Alabama; Georgetown, Kentucky; Princeton, Indiana; San Antonio, Texas; Buffalo, West Virginia and Blue Springs, Mississippi.


Buffalo and Huntsville are strictly engine/Transmission production. I didn't include GM engine/transmission plants or stamping plants or it would treble the total.

If we include engine and transmission assembly plants the totals jump to:

GM - 22

Toyota - 6

Now we're over 3:1 and ignoring another dozen U.S. GM plants that make everything else.

The earlier poster's claim was beyond exaggeration. It was an outright fabrication.


I agree!

My neighbor got laid off because the Shreveport plant is closing. They are down to a skeleton crew.


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Originally Posted by Oldmanms2003


I agree!

My neighbor got laid off because the Shreveport plant is closing. They are down to a skeleton crew.


I'm sad to hear that. My H3T was built in Shreveport.

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Last edited by Foxbat; 05/24/12.

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Just bought a f150 a couple of months ago. Used 2011 with 18k miles on it. Got it for 24k out the door. I like the tundra looks better but the back seat on the f150 crew is sooooo much better than anything else on the market (kids ya know) and I felt the F150 is a truck while the tundra is a wannabe. I got the 3.7L V6 and it's not wanting for much. I don't tow much but feel like it could handle most light to mid duty applications while getting up to 23 mpg on highways at 55-60 MPH.

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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Oldmanms2003


The Shreveport plant is still open but, it is scheduled to close this summer.

Toyota has a large presence in the United States with six major assembly plants in Huntsville, Alabama; Georgetown, Kentucky; Princeton, Indiana; San Antonio, Texas; Buffalo, West Virginia and Blue Springs, Mississippi. You drive a Hummer what the [bleep] would you know about anything mechanical. Toyota opens plants GM closes them in the US End of story.


Buffalo and Huntsville are strictly engine/Transmission production. I didn't include GM engine/transmission plants or stamping plants or it would treble the total.

If we include engine and transmission assembly plants the totals jump to:

GM - 22

Toyota - 6

Now we're over 3:1 and ignoring another dozen U.S. GM plants that make everything else.

The earlier poster's claim was beyond exaggeration. It was an outright fabrication.


22 plants vs 10 toyota plants. 64000 GM workers vs 17600 Toyota workers. That is not counting vendors assembling parts like you are probably counting. 3 x the workers making a quality product not some piece of [bleep].

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Quality sells itself.


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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Oldmanms2003


The Shreveport plant is still open but, it is scheduled to close this summer.

Toyota has a large presence in the United States with six major assembly plants in Huntsville, Alabama; Georgetown, Kentucky; Princeton, Indiana; San Antonio, Texas; Buffalo, West Virginia and Blue Springs, Mississippi. You drive a Hummer what the [bleep] would you know about anything mechanical. Toyota opens plants GM closes them in the US End of story.


Buffalo and Huntsville are strictly engine/Transmission production. I didn't include GM engine/transmission plants or stamping plants or it would treble the total.

If we include engine and transmission assembly plants the totals jump to:

GM - 22

Toyota - 6

Now we're over 3:1 and ignoring another dozen U.S. GM plants that make everything else.

The earlier poster's claim was beyond exaggeration. It was an outright fabrication.


22 plants vs 10 toyota plants. 64000 GM workers vs 17600 Toyota workers. That is not counting vendors assembling parts like you are probably counting. 3 x the workers making a quality product not some piece of [bleep].


22 plants versus 6 plants. That only includes vehicle and engine/trans assembly OWNED by GM and Toyota. No vendors, no stamping, no parts plants, no subcontractors...



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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Quality sells itself.


I have tried time after time buying GM and Chrysler products and I have no luck with them. I used to be a truck manager at a Ford dealership many years ago, we never got the trucks back ever for anything. I just cannot warm up to the styling on the new ones. Unless GM gets bought by Toyota I will not touch another GM anything ever again.

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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Oldmanms2003


The Shreveport plant is still open but, it is scheduled to close this summer.

Toyota has a large presence in the United States with six major assembly plants in Huntsville, Alabama; Georgetown, Kentucky; Princeton, Indiana; San Antonio, Texas; Buffalo, West Virginia and Blue Springs, Mississippi. You drive a Hummer what the [bleep] would you know about anything mechanical. Toyota opens plants GM closes them in the US End of story.


Buffalo and Huntsville are strictly engine/Transmission production. I didn't include GM engine/transmission plants or stamping plants or it would treble the total.

If we include engine and transmission assembly plants the totals jump to:

GM - 22

Toyota - 6

Now we're over 3:1 and ignoring another dozen U.S. GM plants that make everything else.

The earlier poster's claim was beyond exaggeration. It was an outright fabrication.


22 plants vs 10 toyota plants. 64000 GM workers vs 17600 Toyota workers. That is not counting vendors assembling parts like you are probably counting. 3 x the workers making a quality product not some piece of [bleep].


22 plants versus 6 plants. That only includes vehicle and engine/trans assembly OWNED by GM and Toyota. No vendors, no stamping, no parts plants, no subcontractors...



I don[t know where you are getting these numbers . The number that kills your argument is 64k workers vs 176k in the US and the number one selling vehicle in the world.

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What I find funny about this thread is that it is so much like the experiences I had last summer with truck dealers. The guys with the quailty products won't say anything bad about the competition...the others don't do anything else.


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Originally Posted by Darrel
Caterpillar trucks are NOT made by Caterpillar. THey are made for Cat by International/Navistar or whatever name International is using these days! They are marked/badged as Cat but you can buy the same truck with a Ford or GM nameplate on it, too. Cat got out of the truck business (highway) effective Jan. 1, 2009, and do not even make truck engines anymore. ALL of their truck engine manufacturing, design, engineering, etc,, including the plants making them was sold to Navistar, effective 1/1/2009. Cat DOES, under Navistar license, service them though! Please, just keep it straight. I've worked for Cat since 1/3/69. The only trucks currently made by Caaterpillar are OFF-ROAD trucks for construction and mining with capacities starting around 20 tons!


Correct sir, but the on highway trucks are designed and engineered by Cat. The frames are also much taller and stronger than it's International cousin. Many of the engine parts are also genuine Cat parts, including blocks. With on highway trucks, suspensions, brakes, axles etc are made by many other manufacturers. The automatic transmission is also genuine Cat and is going to put a big hurt on Allison IMO. They have a real nice product here, and we are starting to sell quite a few of them.

Over 40 years at Cat, that's impressive.

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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Quality sells itself.


I guess so:

2012 Light truck sales YTD through April 2012:

F Series - 191,280
Silverado - 126,387
Ram - 88,590
Sierra - 47,271
Tacoma - 43,020
Tundra - 27,653

Ouch.... Even Sierra is beating it. I expected the big 3 to still be leading but that's an ass kicking. It has to be the fugly factor, because every thing else Toyota makes, sells itself.





http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/05/april-2012-top-15-pickup-truck-sales.html


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