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Joined: Jul 2007
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Leading a 4-day backpacking trip in Ocober and need to have one of these for the trip.
We used SPOT last time and had iffy results getting messages out. This doesn't inspire a lott of confidence in the unit if we ever really had a life-threatening emergency and needed. Professional help.
We wil be in the western NC mountains which are densely forested.
Here's links to some of the options out there:
Fast Find - no subscription but no messaging or check-in option.
http://www.rei.com/product/791972/mcmurdo-fast-find-210-personal-locator-beacon-with-gps
SPOT
http://www.rei.com/search?query=spot+satellite
InReach
http://www.rei.com/search?query=Inreach

Also need a recommendation on hand-held walkie-talkies that are reliable and can be used in mountainous, wooded terrain.
Something along the lines of this.
http://www.rei.com/product/815266/motorola-talkabout-ms350r-2-way-radios-2-pack

Any thoughts on GMRS (license required) vs. FRS (no license)?

Thanks in advance!
WFR


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I can't help you with the Spot devices, but, look into getting a Ham radio license. A 2 meter hand held will greatly out-perform the frs/gmrs radios, and a search in your area for 2 meter repeaters opens-up a whole new world. Go to QRZ.com, you can take the practice tests, and the cost for the license is minimal.

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10-4 on the spotty SPOT. My hunting partner and I were standing on top of a mountain without a cloud in sight and with full batteries it wouldn't function as advertised. That was a deal-breaker for me.

I just picked up an In-Reach since it is able to send more informative information than the SPOT, but it's too soon to provide a positive review. There will be a few more moving parts to my usual fall hunts this year, so I hope it works as advertised with my Android phone.


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I have a fast find and like it. It is a true PLB sh
o it shoulf be as close 100% as possible, at least as far as my reaserch found.

If you have to have daily contact then get spot but if you want a true PLB get one of those.

PLB are cheaper over time because it is a one time purchas.

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I have the InReach and it performs well.


"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."
- Abraham Lincoln, the Rail Splitter from Illinois.
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You mention thick forest.

Foliage loss in dB is roughly proportional to freq^0.77, so higher frequencies are more lossy than lower frequencies. True plb's work at 400 MHz or so, SPOT at ~1.6GHz. So that is what, (0.4/1.6)^0.77~.34dB down in gain from SPOT to true plb, all else equal. But its not, Spot operates at 0.5W (1'st gen.), or 1W maybe, they're not saying on the specs page. plb's operate at 5W. Antenna efficiencies are not in anyone's specs.

SPOT is claiming they have more satellites than anyone. I find that hard to believe when compared to the SARSAT constellation of LEO and geosynchronous satellites.


Don't know anything about DeLorme thingy, but I suspect it is like SPOT.



Last edited by huskyrunnr; 06/03/12.
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Originally Posted by huskyrunnr
You mention thick forest.

Foliage loss in dB is roughly proportional to freq^0.77, so higher frequencies are more lossy than lower frequencies. True plb's work at 400 MHz or so, SPOT at ~1.6GHz. So that is what, (0.4/1.6)^0.77~.34dB down in gain from SPOT to true plb, all else equal. But its not, Spot operates at 0.5W (1'st gen.), or 1W maybe, they're not saying on the specs page. plb's operate at 5W. Antenna efficiencies are not in anyone's specs.

SPOT is claiming they have more satellites than anyone. I find that hard to believe when compared to the SARSAT constellation of LEO and geosynchronous satellites.


Don't know anything about DeLorme thingy, but I suspect it is like SPOT.


So, in layman's terms, are you saying the PLB will work better in dense foliage?

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Still need input on 2-way radios, Tim, I may consider the Ham license next year but don't have enough margin in my schedule to work that in for this trip.

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Right, 400 Mhz is more penetrable. Now, there are other factors such as antenna efficiency and how far away the satellites are. I think overall plb's are said to be more reliable. I think plb's can also triangulate (in 40 minutes) if they cannot receive a gps signal.

Ham radio is best as noted above.

GMRS is 5 Watts and you can put a high gain antenna on the unit. FRS is 0.5 Watts and you are restricted to the inefficient antenna the unit comes with.

GMRS is a better bet if not getting a Ham license.

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I'v had no problems with the spot connect in canopy.Let it send the signal for the full 20 minutes as suggested.

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Originally Posted by huskyrunnr
Right, 400 Mhz is more penetrable. Now, there are other factors such as antenna efficiency and how far away the satellites are. I think overall plb's are said to be more reliable. I think plb's can also triangulate (in 40 minutes) if they cannot receive a gps signal.

Ham radio is best as noted above.

GMRS is 5 Watts and you can put a high gain antenna on the unit. FRS is 0.5 Watts and you are restricted to the inefficient antenna the unit comes with.

GMRS is a better bet if not getting a Ham license.


Interesting stuff. What are some GMRS units that you'd recommend?


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Originally Posted by Buck59
I'v had no problems with the spot connect in canopy.Let it send the signal for the full 20 minutes as suggested.

If I am activating it for a life-threatening emergency 20 minutes is way too long.
Very much leaning towards the PLB at this time.

Interested in learning more about GMRS and also about antennae options!

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I honestly couldn't say about GMRS, other than get one with a removeable antenna. After weighing the options, I went the ham radio route. I have a brick amp and sla battery mounted in an ammo box that allows me to transmit at 30 Watts for a few hours. I think you can go up to 50 Watts with GMRS, but that is only a "land based" station.

The stub antenna on GMRS/FRS units are way less than quarter wavelength, which is bad news for efficiency. What happens is that the input impedance of these stubby antennas is not matched to the output impedance of the transmitter, and a lot of your power gets reflected back into the transmitter. A true quarter wave monopole antenna is better matched and will not reflect as much power. Even better is a j-pole that you make out of TV twin-lead or rigid rod. It is perfectly matched to the transmitter and has a radiation pattern that is more squashed toward the horizon. The Germans invented this class of antennas because they are end-fed and the antenna was just a wire that streamed behind their zeppelin. I torture my students with the analysis of the j-pole.

Here is a design for a rigid GMRS j-pole. If you use twin-lead, you can roll it up when you're not using it. But you have to tie it to a branch when you want to communicate.

http://blog.mecworks.com/articles/2005/02/27/gmrs-j-pole/

The real advantage of ham is the access to many repeaters, as Tim in NV noted. As an example, up near Eckler mountain in the Wenaha Tucannon, at 5 Watts, I could reach the Spout Springs repeater near Tollgate 30 miles away and talk to folks in the Tri-Cities 70 miles away.

There are GMRS repeaters as well, but they are private I think.

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Okay, that's impressive.


It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't, everyone would do it. The hard...is what makes it great.
Reviews are only as good as the crowd reviewing them.
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Originally Posted by WFR
Originally Posted by Buck59
I'v had no problems with the spot connect in canopy.Let it send the signal for the full 20 minutes as suggested.

If I am activating it for a life-threatening emergency 20 minutes is way too long.
Very much leaning towards the PLB at this time.

Interested in learning more about GMRS and also about antennae options!


The info i gave you was for sending a message.When you activate the emergency signal it keeps sending.
HOW IT WORKS:
Once activated, SPOT will acquire its GPS location from the GPS network, and send that location along with a distress message to the GEOS International Emergency Response Center every five minutes until cancelled or until the batteries are depleted. The Emergency Response Center notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your GPS location and personal information � which may include local police, highway patrol, the Coast Guard, our country's embassy or consulate, or other emergency search and rescue teams � as well as notifying your emergency contacts about the receipt of a distress sign

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+1 on getting a ham radio license. qrz.com makes it easy to memorize all the answers. if you're just using it for convenience or emergency communication, you really don't need an in depth understanding.

where i live, hunt & backpack, there's no cell service for 50-100 miles. there's a repeater though & having the handheld ham radio allows me to talk to other hunters to get help packing an animal out or to tell my wife that i am once again hiking out long long after dark.

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Rent a sat phone.

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Originally Posted by brymoore
Rent a sat phone.

Costly but have considered it.

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You can rent a sat phone cheaper than buying and activating a SPOT. $84 for a week, $1.99 per minute.

http://www.mobal.com/satellite-phone-rental/

Last edited by brymoore; 06/04/12.

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