Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Bath Salts, What Do You Think?????

Perhaps the argument could be made that drugs are mala in se from my vantage point it would definitely qualify. A material that is injested that steals reasoning and holds a person against their will, causing them to commit acts that are evil? If that isn't wrong in itself and prohibits peaceful reasonable interaction between member of society I don't know what is.

I'm on the libertarian wagon but jump off when it comes to drugs.

If that "let's just all" is intended as persuasion, then I have no issue with you. You go on and have yourself a ball; I've got some other stuff to do at the moment, but I appreciate the invitation.

If you're expecting to put some sort of private or government coercion behind that "let's just all," on the other hand, then we'll have ourselves a little situation.

The State allows murder for itself although it denies it for the rest of us.

The State allows slavery to as long as one sells one self to the State.

Gee, now that I think about the State allows the rest to as long as the State benefits from it.

There are many who will always look for the next better high and intoxicant.

Boy, ain't that the truth.

Dang!!! You spotted the trap.

You're trying to get to an aggressor/victim scenario by painting the drugs as an aggressor and the user as a victim.

I understand the attraction, but it won't work. An inanimate rock of cocaine can't be an aggressor any more than a loaded handgun lying on a table can be an aggressor. They're both completely incapable of any action whatsoever until picked up and put to use by a moral agent. If the moral agent uses them to victimize somebody else, then you've got your aggressor/victim scenario; but if he voluntarily uses them on himself, whether to harm or to heal, you simply have no standing in the situation. Any coercive move you make is tyrannical, period.

I have watched close friends who were really trying to get off drugs relapse back into them. It tears me up inside when that happens, but it's their choice, not mine. I can't keep them separated from drugs 24/7; if anybody's going to do that, it's going to have to be them, and the only way they're ever going to develop the strength to be able to do that is to learn to make their own painful choices. I can support; but overriding or preventing their choice is only harmful in the long run, not helpful.


I understand. I had my own issues with the libertarian wagon during my slide from conservative to anarchist. Mostly minors for me, not drugs, but I did a lot of reading and studying, and it turned out that a lot of smart people had done a lot of deep thinking already on the subject, and it helped.

It would be nice if the U.S. would just let all the druggies have at it. Build "clinics" and let the dopers have all the drugs they want for a price of course. Provide counseling (for PC purposes) to those who want to be cured but let the rest OD. Dig a hole out back and fill it with the bodies. The war on drugs has nothing really to do with the suppliers and everything to do with the users. Take care of the user end of it and there will be no need for the supplier end of it. Much like immigration. Figure out a cure for the need for those people to immigrate here and you will solve the issue of illegal entry. We have an near inexhaustible supply of cheap labor right here within our borders. Make welfare workfare and make prisons work camps. That would about fill the void for cheap labor. That is the fast and easy version. I'm sure we could have all of you figure out the fine details later.

End minimum wage laws and there will be no more illegal immigrants or welfare. Of course, the unions will have chit fits.

Nor do I see anything wrong with kids out in the fields doing a little work but those who are against child labor would chit as well. A paper route is fine but not doing some farm work in the fields?

I chopped cotton on my grandfather's farm when I was five and six years old, for fifteen cents an hour. Before I was done, I had been raised to a quarter an hour because I'd learned to do it more cleanly.

Does anybody here notice that I have any lingering self-esteem problems from that?

It's the last time I ever got a 67% raise after a year of work, that's for dang sure.

I think the raise went to your head, just sayin'.

Wow, I just cringed thinking about uttering that line to my parents. It would have likely provoked a session of child abuse.

I grew up on a farm and during the summers worked all day and often into the night. Now add cutting timber, pulp wood, fire wood for home use and sale.

Working bees, picking blackberrys, clearning land was recreation.

I was reimbursed with food, clothes and a roof over my head, .22 and shotgun ammo, and never thought a thing about actually getting paid.

I'm thankful for my early life, the lessons learned and the men I shared time with. I'm today amazed the youth with their entitlement mentality and lack of interest in the world around them.

As am I. I grew up in a very small town but my dad who was a teacher was better off than most and we had natural gas heat. However, my dad believing in learning how to work hard sent me to several neighbors as hired help. Except I didn't get paid. I split and stacked wood for half the neighborhood, mowed lawns, made hay, and a whole lot of other things as a kid. Today you're lucky to see kids outside and if you do their loading up 2k worth of sports gear in the Suburban to go to some practice of some sort. The reason we don't have any quality blue collar jobs in this country anymore is because no one is interested.