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On matters of twist and goo factor a few eons ago a friend and I were spending a day destroying a pd town. He was using same ammo as I, only diff was twist (.223's). The dogs his hit really puree'd and the ones I hit weren't quite as colorful and we all know how the colored ones die all the deader right...grin

Dober


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Originally Posted by dmsbandit
For deer I used a 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip in my 6.5x55 this year. At 3050fps it has a MPBR of 297 yds and it only takes 44grs of powder to get that.

I would think it would be a viable option for a light recoiling deer killing combo if the 270 with a 130 is too much. That 100 gr BT killed a nice fat [120pounds dressed] doe this year. the bullet took out the heart and broke the opposite shoulder as it exited. Not too bad for a lightweight round.


Course then again one could just stick one of several 90-110's in a .270 and do the same thing. The 90 Sierra has been a stone killer for us, accurate and to date we've not kept on inside a deer or lope.

Back in the day when we could get 100 grain Solid Bases they worked very well. I still have a small rainy day stash of that slug.

Dober

Last edited by Mark R Dobrenski; 07/13/12.

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Originally Posted by Maverick940
Originally Posted by gunner500
Can you smart fellers re-splain to me how the Swede almost whispers like a fine Woman when it is fired, and gives the same feminine playful shove on recoil?

But when the 140 NPT's arrive on target they wreak PURE HELL on meat, bone, and depth of penetration?

Guess I'm trying to say how in hell can something so gentle on one end be PURE EVIL on the other. crazy

Gunner


All seemingly "sweet" things have that pre-disposed ability.


Dang good point maverick and OH SO true grin

6BR, that makes perfect sense also, guess I'm kinda coming to realize and appreciate the majic of the little 6.5 Swede, suposin' a man gets hit with a gently flying Javelin' thrown from an Olympic athlete, it gonna fook you up. laugh

Hell, they should be calling it the 6.5 SWEET. grin

I find my 270 WCF to be a bit more violent both in recoil, noise, and the edible part destruction, and I'm no expert on a damn thing, but I have never lost or even had anything go much further than just outta eyesight before either seeing or hearing the animal crash.

A solidly hit critter on the receiving end of a 270 WCF with handloaded 150 NPT's @2900 is in deep FERTILIZER.

Cant wait to shoot the Swede through live game this fall.

Gunner


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Originally Posted by gunner500


Cant wait to shoot the Swede through live game this fall.

Gunner


That is prexactly where I am too. I'm moving Aug 1, pan to load develop for my Swede. If all goes well, I have family with farms where I can do a little 'slip' hunting. The 6.5X55 ought to be perfect. smile

Not that I needed it. blush


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Can you smart fellers re-splain to me how the Swede almost whispers like a fine Woman when it is fired, and gives the same feminine playful shove on recoil?

But when the 140 NPT's arrive on target they wreak PURE HELL on meat, bone, and depth of penetration?

Guess I'm trying to say how in hell can something so gentle on one end be PURE EVIL on the other. crazy

Gunner


Here is a copy of my previous post that trys to answer your question. Enjoy!

"Total recoil energy is related to bullet energy, so the 270 kicks harder than the 6.5x55. But there is more to recoil than just energy. Recoil speed is a factor that is related to bullet speed. The slower the bullet speed, the slower recoil speed, and the slower recoil feels more like a p-u-s-h, whereas faster recoil feels more like a SLAP!, and the p-u-s-h is easier to take than a SLAP! Since the 270 shoots faster than the 6.5x55, it's recoil feels more like a SLAP! I experience a similar difference in recoil sensation between my 375 H&H and my 416 Rigby. The recoil of my 375 with a 270gr bullet at 2700 fips feels more like a SLAP!, while the recoil of my 416 with a 400gr bullet at 2300 fips feels more like a p-u-s-h. I'm sure the total recoil energy of the 416 is greater than that of the 375, but IMO the 416 feels easier to handle. Of course, the difference in weight between the two rifles makes a difference in the feel of the recoil too, the 416 being heavier."

On July 4th we had our usual get-together of old friends at my house. The festivities always include a bit of shooting, and this year I brought out my 416 Rigby for everyone to try. To my amazement, my 21-year-old daughter volunteered to shoot the big rifle. We all assured her that while the recoil was substantial, it was tolerable and more of a p-u-s-h. She handled the big gun with ease and turned around with a big s..t-eatin' grin on her face that is the universal sign of enjoyment at having shot a cool gun. That's my girl! grin




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SAME,SAME Truth is I could use a 308 and hunt everything in North America with it,but I have this fricken disease that makes me buy different calibers and I am not taking any 12 step program to get rid of it.


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Not to throw you a wrench in the thinking Gunner but per Don Zutz, he made a reference to the 6.5x55 using 129 Hornady SPs, would do more radial damage on deer than a 270/130gr.

NOW, that does not by itself prove anything, as BULLET choice matters, and also the variable such as what the bullet hit, impact speed, etc.

I just wanted to point that out as Mr. Zutz in some pages on the 6.5x55 made a point to reference a deer kill w/it vs. a 270.

Again, as most all here know, it's the bullet that hits the deer, headstamps are irrelevant by itself.

SO, that said, I would expect a 130 partition at 3100 from a 270, to do more damage than a 140 PT at 2700 from a Swede, ALL ELSE Equal.

I may be wrong, but on soft tissue that's my thinking. It's not to say the 140 Swede is not going to penetrate as much or more w/higher SD, as often slower speeds enhance penetration due to smaller frontal area resulting from less expansion.

Also, you get secondary shrapnel from bone, etc. when bullets penetrate well, and say straight line penetration thru shoulders and the like.

SO Many variables, but suffice to say in the end, BOTH are great killers, regardless of whatever differences they have - dead is dead and Enough game has dropped DRT or close to it, to prove both rounds highly effective.

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Originally Posted by 65BR
Not to throw you a wrench in the thinking Gunner but per Don Zutz, he made a reference to the 6.5x55 using 129 Hornady SPs, would do more radial damage on deer than a 270/130gr....


Twist?




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The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bobin, IIRC he stated either 7 1/2" (7.5) or 7.87, seems I have seen both for Military rifles stated, Suffice to say, back when the book 'Handloading for Hunters' was published.

It was LONG ago, and it was mostly military Swedish Mausers and perhaps a few Husqvarna's (not 94/96 mil-surp) and Parker Hale rifles around, but 7.5-8 has often been a typical twist used in 6.5x55s.

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One more point - on twist, I have a copy and perhaps the actual Handloaders digest from late 60s or early 70s, author not sure, may be Robert Sherwood, did extensive test on 6.5x55, used newspaper/phone books or something like that for media.

He tested 6.5x55, and also 6.5 Rem Mag, it seemed to show more bullet upset (same bullet in each rifle) at a lower speed in the Swede, his theory, faster twist rate made a difference, not great, but noticeable.

Debates I have concluded on twist rate is that it's perhaps more 'academic' when it comes to killing effect. I Do always choose a faster for cal spin and never the slowish side as some opt for optimal accuracy.

MY thoughts on twist, the faster twist rifles all else equal give a great opportunity for the bullet to maintain nose forward throughout penetration in an animal - perhaps maximizing the opportunity for straight line penetration. Also, there may be some benefit if a bullet hits brush, that if faster spun, having less chance to stray off course. My theories not tested, but I feel there may be some benefit here.

That said, my 270/150 PT kill, the Partition lost the front half core ROTATED base forward the last foot or so of penetration and the jacket after parachuting open had closed back up once it went into base forward mode. No big deal, nearly exited the Mulie from 275 yds, neck to ham. Perhap a 140 PT from an 8 twist Swede would have punched thru, needless to say, that buck only managed to drag itself perhaps 30 yds in the snow, after dropping at the shot.


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Originally Posted by 65BR
One more point - on twist, I have a copy and perhaps the actual Handloaders digest from late 60s or early 70s, author not sure, may be Robert Sherwood, did extensive test on 6.5x55, used newspaper/phone books or something like that for media.

He tested 6.5x55, and also 6.5 Rem Mag, it seemed to show more bullet upset (same bullet in each rifle) at a lower speed in the Swede, his theory, faster twist rate made a difference, not great, but noticeable.

Debates I have concluded on twist rate is that it's perhaps more 'academic' when it comes to killing effect. I Do always choose a faster for cal spin and never the slowish side as some opt for optimal accuracy.

MY thoughts on twist, the faster twist rifles all else equal give a great opportunity for the bullet to maintain nose forward throughout penetration in an animal - perhaps maximizing the opportunity for straight line penetration.



65BR: Along the same lines I was thinking and the point of my question...at least one bullet designer agrees with a lot of what you say here,and proved it through a lot of experimenting. smile




The 280 Remington is overbore.

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The Sewde is quieter, better suited to shorter tubes and recoils less. If you like trivial argument it is cheaper to load simply becuase it uses less powder,h lthough I never got and an answer to the question I wrote once, "What did you buy with the money you saved on powder by using and economical cartridge".

In the field, especially for the usual game most people take, I never saw any difference that could be noted and I loaded for 3 or 4 over about a 10 or 12 year period.


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Bobin, I never 'over spun' any bullets, well save PERHAPS one time when a 70TNT may have POOFED on the way to a 330 yd target, SWORE I fired 5 but only 4 holes, 6BR @3400... and yes, 8 twist.

Never had poor accuracy going fast/faster RPMs, but not needed the last 1% of accuracy b/c I am not shooting for score, as hunting is my game, and game is the target. The rest is practice and fun.

Yes, I heard some folks were playing w/the 270 in higher weights using faster twist, preferably - no doubt it will make for ONE Fine LR rifle round!

When folks really want to Stretch w/Reach, little substitute for more BC and momentum...so heavier bullets rule, typically longer, and need some Twist/added.

I can imagine a 270 quick twisted using heavies, in say a 24 or maybe btr yet 25-26" tube, and go ahead and do an AI on it.

That should really shake things up. Alas, 280AI and 180s...Lol.

Aussie, always enjoy your posts, and folks like Dom across the pond. Nothing trumps experience, nice to share info on the fire.

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How do we get 2800 fps with a 140gr bullet in the Swede? Can it be done with a 22" barrel?

The fastest load on Hornady's website is 2700 even, and there's only one load at that speed. Everything else is in the 2400s to 2600s. I assume mine are going 25-hundred-something because that is what the book says. All I know is that the deer die, and if I put them in the "special" spots, they die instantly, as in STRAIGHT DOWN. I zero at 200 yards and aim where I want the bullet to land out to 225 or a bit more. What will 2800 fps gain me that I don't already have? Yes, I'm baiting. grin


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There is such a round as a 6.5x55 AI...it gives 100-150 over like a 6.5x284 IIRC. Should be w/in reach. I'd seriously not sweat some fps...just me.

Bear in mind, ALOT of 55 data, was meant for 1894/1896 Mausers...though they were IIRC Proofed to about 67K...but may be CUP. I'd never 'hot rod' a mil-surp, as I had a near mishap about 18 yrs ago...re-formed brass, no neck turning i.e. crimped...blown case...cracked bolt threads around the striker that could have went thru my head.

ONLY load in a Ruger, Rem, Win, Sako, T3, etc. - MODERN loads for Modern rifles IMHO.

But, to answer, a 140 at 2600 is good for 300-350yds if it's a cup/core, a mono, needs more speed/mv for that far.

The potential of a Swede given it's +/- 1.5gr diff in capacity over a 260 Rem, is about identical, maybe 50 fps more w/heavier bullets due to throating also....IMO. SO look at data for the modern 260, and you get the picture.

Few loads here..

http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?CaliberID=120&BulletWeight=140

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We are on the same page, 65BR. I don't sweat a few fips. There is no need. The difference in trajectory is NOTHING AT ALL! More than anything, I was more curious just how folks get that speed. To be honest, I already know how - PRESSURE. It's easy to get 15-20 HP from a 10 horse Briggs-n-Stratton, but don't expect it to last 30 years. smile


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My neighbors are dairy farmers and they use John Deere tractors. Their tractors will out-pull any other John Deere in the neighborhood because they adjust the injectors to get more HP than the tractor is rated for. Thing is the rest of the tractor is designed and rated for the original HP as delivered by the factory. Now these people have the sense to hold this extra power in reserve for "special" and "emergency" use and not push their equipment to the max all the time so it will last a long time, but if they continually ran it at 200% of it's rated power it would break down in no time at all. The same thing applies with riffles and every other kind of machinery. I do not push my rifles beyond their design parameters. If I need more power, I use a bigger riffle. Lord knows I have enough of 'em. grin


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Well, short of a 29.1" mauser bbl wink Lol.

I often find accuracy at top safe pressures, but don't veer much over published data if/when, no need to risk me, rifle, or ruin brass fast.

Every animal I fairly hit w/any round, + game bullet, has died...

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I think the extra 200 fps of the 270 trumps ballistically until you get out further than I want to shoot.

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Same thing.
if anything will be noticed in the field, it will likely be more penetration from the 6.5.
Nothing can be killed with one that the other cannot emulate.


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