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When ordering boots how much bigger in size do you go for socks and swelling of feet? I'm a 10.5 medium so 11.5 medium? One size up or more?
Thanks

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Going up a size is the usual "rule of thumb" for fitting mountain boots and I wear US "9" shooes, but US "10" boots. I really suggest working with Lathrop's as those guys can fit you correctly and sell a good product.

Actually, a few years ago, I spoke on the phone with them and they ended up offering me a job as one of their fitters. I had retired at 55, end of June, 2001 and had job offers paying far more in the BC-Yukon mineral exploration industry...but, my wife asked me to stay retired.

I have had as many as three pairs of topend boots literally disintegrate within the 7-8 months of my former seasonal wilderness work in the BC mountains and, btw, many longterm and very active sheep hunters here in BC, find Kenetreks a bit "soft" for serious,longterm mountain use.

I intend to buy a pair of Kennetreks next month to use hunting on Vancouver Island, to help preserve my FGL Galibier Peuteray, Kastinger and Scarpa boots that do work best in serious mountain uses. I suggest talking to John Calden as well.

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Thanks for all the info. I see there are a lot of different brands that I'll have to look at. Being as I'm in Montana, I'll have to look at the Kennetreks. Bozeman isn't very far from me. Also I think it will have to be two different boots to deal with the temperature extremes. Thanks again guys.



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For the reply to ...no price limit... comment in your initial post, Google "John Calden Boots" and give him a call.

Also, while I like the Kenetrek pacs, but, prefer my original Scnee's, I would choose Hoffman's over them, now, should I ever buy another pair. Google them, in Idaho.

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I wonder how all those "mountain men" made it with buckskin, leather, cotton, wool and moccosins.


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As far as gear goes.. The poorer (or cheaper) you are, the tougher you need to be.


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Actually, the early mountain men here in BC, did not wear mocassins and did wear highend, custom made boots. The terrain is such that moccassins are pretty much useless and BC was largely explored during "The Victorian Era" when climbing boots were first developed in the European Alps and then brought here.

Buckskin was also not often used in BC, the explorers here wore woolen, some cotton (linen) and leather garments and not hides,etc.

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Originally Posted by chas1
When ordering boots how much bigger in size do you go for socks and swelling of feet? I'm a 10.5 medium so 11.5 medium? One size up or more?
Thanks


You're referring to how much larger than your tennis shoes or street shoes? It would depend on the manufacturer. Could be anywhere from a half size to a full size or more, depending on the manufacturer.

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That is the actual size of my foot without a shoe. I went to the foot doc for a problem and had him figure what size my foot was, actually. I usually wear an 11.

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Originally Posted by chas1
That is the actual size of my foot without a shoe. I went to the foot doc for a problem and had him figure what size my foot was, actually. I usually wear an 11.


An eleven boot, or street shoe? I guess you're probably referring to a shoe with casual socks, I think. If that's the case, two pair of outdoor socks will equate to a larger size boot, by at least one size [Depending on manufacturer, of course]. And if that's the case, you'd be looking at a size twelve [Again, depending on manufacturer].

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I'm curious Kutenay, what do you consider "serious mountain use", especially as it relates to today's backcountry hunter?

Personally, I am not at all a fan of heavy, clunky, loud, stiff, old-school vibram soled boots that don't have a full rubber rand and have an almost nonexistent rocker...and I don't know anyone else that actually gets out there in serious backcountry hunting conditions that does either. In my experience, old school vibram just doesn't hold a candle to the more modern sticky rubber compounds and traction designs used in the Kene's.

Here's a few pics of a small part of a friend's trophy room. He's rarely home and is the very definition of a "serious mountain hunter". Clearly, he can afford to buy any boot on the planet. One guess as to which type of boot he prefers to wear when sheep hunting...

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by Bushcraft
I'm curious Kutenay, what do you consider "serious mountain use", especially as it relates to today's backcountry hunter?

Personally, I am not at all a fan of heavy, clunky, stiff, old-school vibram soled boots that don't have a full rubber rand and have an almost nonexistent rocker...and I don't know anyone else that actually gets out there in serious backcountry hunting conditions that does either. In my experience, old school vibram just doesn't hold a candle to the more modern sticky rubber compounds and traction designs used in the Kene's.

Here's a few pics of a small part of a friend's trophy room. He's rarely home and is the very definition of a "serious mountain hunter". Clearly, he can afford to buy any boot on the planet. One guess as to which boots he wears...

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


For serious off-road hunting north of 50 degrees latitude in mountainous terrain, I generally wear Invernos.


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Right now, I am wearing a pair of 1970s Gaibier Peuteray boots, FGL, I fitted them when I bought them from a gentleman in Califoria and I had Italian Vibram soles re-fitted. I also have Scarpa Fuego and Concordia boots, Kastinger FGL climbing boots and an ancient pair of the Meindl Geologist boots developed here in Vancouver in conjunction with the late Al Meindl.

These, plus Viberg packers and loggers of various styles, Google their site, Victoria, BC. and the now gone Pierre Paris, Daytons and Head's boots made in Vancouver are what I mean by ...serious..., etc. I do not think like a guided client as I spent much of my life working in the mountains where I was born and raised.

So, I also did not buy the Sitka Gear that came here, do not often bother with camo and I prefer merino wool and either woolen whipcord or sometimes nylon pants.

BTW, most of the dozens of BC professional guides I have known and have been asked to become one of, usually wore jeans, flannel or cotton shirts and often work boots when guiding wealthy foreign hunters for trophies such as those you post the photos of. I do not now wear cotton as I prefer lighter synthetic pants as above.....cheaper the better and I learned about these on this very forum...even an old dog......

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Boot manufacturer names doesn't quite answer my question with regard to what you consider "serious mountain use". How do you define serious mountain/backcountry use?

Also, just curious, what are you implying when you say "I do no think like a guided client"?


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Granted, these are not boots, but for most of my serious mountain use I use 5.10 camp 4's. They are essentially an approach shoe and have some very sticky rubber. The only negative to them is they are slow to dry. I combat that with neoprene and wool socks. I might investigate the canyoneering version on the next purchase, but I've come to believe wet feet are a part of being in the mountains. My goretex boots will wet out, just slower, but once they do it's over. If they don't wet out, usually they get wet from the inside.

Truth is, traction is as much or more about technique than it is the rubber. I've hiked up steep trails carrying 50 lbs with Five fingers before. I also have become very fond of the Merrel Barefoots, in fact I ran down 3k in an 1:01 last week with a Dana Longbed on my back wearing the barefoots. Granted, I had no designs on running when I set out. I intended to load the Dana with 70 lbs of rocks in a nasty drainage to see if I could handle it in those shoes. The running came about due to an emergency I needed to tend to.

I think boots are generally over rated. A friend and I did a mostly over snow route in April of close to 30 miles. About 12 miles, was snow only, he wore mountaineering boots, and I took regular boots with crampons. At the end of the 14 hr day, both of our feet were soaked. It's life. Good socks are the best way to deal with wet feet. Technique is more important than rubber for staying upright. Grippy rubber helps, but technique rules.


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My friends, colleagues and I were not wealthy and we bought all of our own gear, while being paid the relatively low salaries that BC paid in my working years. So, we would buy a pair or maybe two of leather boots and one of rubber or rubber-leather pacs and that was it, we used them for EVERYTHING.

This,included all aspects of hunting in BC-AB, fishing,climbing, hiking, some cross-country skiing and working at fighting wildfires, various forestry projects and even wearing to college. I grew up "poor" and worked for everything I now have, so, I bought boots that would last and not fail on a steep fire at the worst possible time.

I am not implying anything, if you would notice, I very specifically stated that MY comments were based on BC, where I live and so forth. What has worked for me, for the 50+ years since I got my first Pierre Paris boots in 1961,age 15 may well not suit others. Kenetreks, have some nice boots and I am going to buy some, soon, but, they are too soft and will not wear or support the orthopaedic lift on my right boot as FGL boots do and always have.

I will, by choice, never buy another boot with a rubber rand as they never fit quite like a Galibier or Kastinger "Old School" boot will and are useless to dangerous in fire. So, while a client hunter from wherever may come to BC, he will very probably have a different paradigm for much of his gear than I do.

I also have used the plastic boots, not Invernos, mine were Asolos and they do not suit me as well as FGL climbing boots always have. I posted photos of me free-climbing wearing Meindl Aconcaguas and those were my daily footwear for some 3 years, going through three re-solings, until I tore a shank loose in one and pitched them.

So, that is it, I do,like some of the light,sticky soled Raichle and Sportiva boots I have had, but, each pair of boots costs me an additional $200+ for my lift and these do not last a year with that, so, I no longer use them as I cannot afford to waste money in that way.

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Interesting. I'll have to take a look at those 5.10's

Thanks!


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Talking brands is almost useless, as fit is everything. Talking about types of boots has some merit. I've really been trying to push the low end of support this summer in different types of terrain with various loads. Been wearing Teva Raiths and Salomon Fastpacker Mids. Mostly, I miss all leather (nothing fits like all leather) and a stiffer last. I don't miss the weight. Yesterday morning I was making my way off trail up a very steep and loose desert canyon. I found myself wondering if the smearing on gravel I was doing was better than the kick stepping into gravel that I would be doing with my heavier mountain boots. I'll switch back after a while and see. For a lightweight pair of boots (ok... really just tennis shoes), I'm impressed with the fastpackers.

This is all just experimentation on my part though. My default answer is a good pair of all leather mountain boots with a stiff midsole. You shouldn't be able to twist the sole along the long axis with your hands very much if at all.

You can get a lot lower temperature rating out of uninsulated leather boots using VBLs. I carry a couple of pairs of newspaper bags and a pair of liner socks (which I don't normally use) in my winter kit for just this reason. Liner socks with newspaper bags over them with regular socks over those will get you around an extra 20 degrees of comfort.

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+ 1 VBL. I've used grocery store bags on winter trips before. I had a friend that complained how cold his feet were in his snowboarding boots, I gave him some grocery bags, he said his feet were never cold again until we got back to the car the next day.

I don't like stiff soles (and I have two pair o mountaineering boots) except for kick stepping or crampon stuff. I think smearing generally works well, in fact looking at the old soles of my 5.10's they look like they were smeared a lot. A lot can be said for technique. I've seen folks descend a combination of scree and hard pan in 8 or 10 minutes, that others will only come down on their butt and take an hour in doing (and tumble 50 rocks along the way). One of the reasons , I prefer no ankle support 95% of the time is you can use more technique. I find sometimes, it's plunge stepping, sometimes it finding the one solid rock buried in the gravel, and being very light on your feet, sometimes, it edging and so on. I find full on boots harder to control technique, thus they will never grip the same regardless of rubber.


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I wear Merrell Trail Gloves too, absolutely love them.


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Define "serious backcountry hunting conditions"
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

One hunt in this area will completely round off a new green-dot vibram sole, cutting deep and carving off substantial chunks in the process. What would it do to something softer?

Rocker in a welted boot comes with use.

A rubber rand is a gimmick developed to protect inferior leather and the glued seam between sole and upper. That's it. It serves no other purpose. Waxed roughout leather of appropriate thickness and tan process is about bulletproof.

All that said, you won't see a fifteen mile packout on moraine down south. Nor will you see it most places up here. Maybe a tennis shoe disguised as a boot is appropriate for most of that (that's a joke, sorta).

Originally Posted by Bushcraft
I'm curious Kutenay, what do you consider "serious mountain use", especially as it relates to today's backcountry hunter?

Personally, I am not at all a fan of heavy, clunky, loud, stiff, old-school vibram soled boots that don't have a full rubber rand and have an almost nonexistent rocker...and I don't know anyone else that actually gets out there in serious backcountry hunting conditions that does either. In my experience, old school vibram just doesn't hold a candle to the more modern sticky rubber compounds and traction designs used in the Kene's.

Last edited by Vek; 07/19/12.
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