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#6715382 - 07/26/12 Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences
ranger1 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 4204
Loc: Central Montana
Could someone please explain the differences between the two. I know that the 1600 has some sort of a ballistic program, but the 1600 B seems to have a better one. Can't seem to find anything other than the factory blurb on either. Any other suggestions on a compact rangefinder with a ballistic option of some sort would be welcome.

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#6715400 - 07/26/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: ranger1]
firstcoueswas80 Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 8003
Loc: Arizona
From my understanding, the 1600B has the built in ballistics calculator. I do not know that the 1600 has one?

I know where you can get a 1200 scan, for cheap wink

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#6716109 - 07/26/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: firstcoueswas80]
ranger1 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 4204
Loc: Central Montana
The description on CameraLand says that the 1600 has a built in ballistic calculator, looks like the 1600B just has a better one. Was hoping someone had some insight on the two models. Probably should have figured this all out before I sold the one I had!

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#6716357 - 07/26/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: ranger1]
JasonF Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 946
Loc: Australia
I'm fairly sure that the 1600 ballistic algorithms didn't work particularly well so it was discontinued and replaced with the 1600B.

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#6716431 - 07/26/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: JasonF]
gr8fuldoug Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/14/05
Posts: 5251
Loc: NYC, NY
Originally Posted By: JasonF
I'm fairly sure that the 1600 ballistic algorithms didn't work particularly well so it was discontinued and replaced with the 1600B.


Could not be farther from the truth. It is a new, more advanced, system altogether.

Basically the 1600-B adds additional function to the ballistics program related to angular shooting situations. Providing Actual Ballistics Distance and "dialing" information for angular shot calculations. 1600 provided only holdover information for angled calculations.

I have asked my contact at Leica for a more complete reply to state the differences and I am sure they will respond in a timely fashion.
_________________________
Doug @ Camera Land

gr8fuldoug@aol.com
http://www.cameralandny.com
516-217-1000

Thanks for the support.

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#6716743 - 07/26/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: gr8fuldoug]
ranger1 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 4204
Loc: Central Montana
Thanks Doug, seems that there's a minimal amount of firsthand experience with them at this early stage. Do you have the 1600-B in stock currently?

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#6716919 - 07/26/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: ranger1]
gr8fuldoug Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/14/05
Posts: 5251
Loc: NYC, NY
Originally Posted By: ranger1
Do you have the 1600-B in stock currently?


We have received 3 shipments already and sold thru them all. We expect our next delivery within the next week or so
_________________________
Doug @ Camera Land

gr8fuldoug@aol.com
http://www.cameralandny.com
516-217-1000

Thanks for the support.

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#6717834 - 07/26/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: gr8fuldoug]
SpanielDog Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 18
Dear all,

The following is the rundown of the specific differences between the CRF1600 and the CRF 1600B. The only differences lie in the ballistics package.

In short:

They both have a ballistic calculator, the B is just a significant improvement in distance and flexibility of that calculator.

The 1600 would:

provide compensated elevation corrections in .1MILS or MOA out to 500m/appx545y (100m/y or 200m/y sight in)

The new 1600B will:

do the same but to 800m/appx880y, correcting in .1MILS or MOA, plus inches or cm, clicks, or Ballistic/Angle compensated (dial-to/some call it TBR) distance (AND adds 300m/y sight in)

ALL of the corrections above are based on LOS distance, Angle, Temp, Station Pressure, Sight in Distance, and 1 of 12 preset ballistic curves.

In short, the 1600B will work for folks who wish to dial minutes or mils, use a minute or mil based reticle, hold over in inches or cm, or dial distance on a custom cut turret.

Basically it speaks any language a shooter could want, for compensated elevation corrections out to 800m.

Hint: if you want it to give you corrections in MOA, use the 1-1 setting in the click value settings on the US program option. This is telling the unit that your scope clicks equal 1MOA per click. If you need to know fractions of a minute, just use the 1-4 setting for each click = 1/4 minute and divide by 4 for minute plus 1/4 corrections. For example, if the unit is set on 1 - 4 in the click option and tells you 43, take 43/4 which = 10.75 = 10 3/4 MOA.

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#6719423 - 07/27/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: SpanielDog]
ranger1 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 4204
Loc: Central Montana
Thanks for the explanation SpanielDog. Looks like the 1600-B is the way to go.

Doug - Would you advise ordering now or could a guy wait until the shipment comes in and still get one?

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#6719581 - 07/27/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: SpanielDog]
GSSP Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 2983
Loc: Near Hobble Creek Canyon, Utah
SpanielDog,

Thank's for a VERY good description of the differences. I assume you're the Leica rep. I guess you've straightened me out on a few items.

I have both the 1600 and 1600-B; newly acquired from Doug just a few weeks back. It's an awesome piece of optics. I sold my Swaro LRF 1-1/2 yrs back after a 3 month side x side comparison of the two. The Swaro is awesome but to me, the Leica is better, especially when one adds the ABC Ballistic Calc.

I've been running the 1600 in conjunction with my light (11 lbs) sniper rifle in 6.5x47 Lapus pushing a 130 VLD to 2970 fps. I use ballistic curve #3 and it's within 1/2 MOA all the way to it's max range of 550 yds (that's using the ballistic calculator). I've ranged clumps of oak brush to 1970 yds.

The new 1600-B is easier to configure to the options SpanielDog described. I wish the MOA drop was in #.# read out the same as the 1600 instead of total clicks. Having to divide by 4 to get my final moa shooting solution is just one more step to complete. No problem until one gets frazzled.

I love the fact that the 1600-B's ABC ballistic calculator goes all the way to 875 yds and I mean "875". Not a yard more. Believe me I've been really testing it lately. I compared it's drops to my Shooter program and it's also VERY close to what is needed; until about 600 or so yds. Then the two paths start to divide and by the time 875 yds comes around, it's 2-3/4 MOA off. I've tested this in the field too. Just this morning the 1600-B gave me about 20.75 moa and I was over the 1/2 sized silhouette. My Shooter dope sheet said 18 moa and "clang, clang, clang" went my next three shots. So, beyond 600 or so yds I'll simply use the laser to get the range, and the temp, baro and angle to complete the data necessary to input in to either my EXBAL or Shooter.

In the morning I drive to No. Utah where my partner and I are competing in Competition Dynamics "24hr Sniper Adventure Challenge". Thirty miles through 7,000' mountains with 50-60lb packs in a 30 hr time limit ascending a total of about 10,000'. Temps in to the 50's at night and mid 90's during the day. 14 or so mandatory check points where their will be courses of fire for LR precision rifles to 1200 yds, AR15 carbines to 500 yds and sidearms to 100 yds. We have additional bonus checkpoints where challenges other than shooting are in store for us such as picking locks/handcuffs, tying knots, 6-mile precision land nav course, etc. $75,000 in prizes on the table from the sponsers. No GPS, night vision or anything electronic that can communicate. Just old fashion map and compass.

I talked my partner into using my Leica 1600 for his AR15. He loves it, smacking steel consistently to 500. I'll then sell my 1600 and welcome the new 1600-B home after it passes muster in the next few days.

Wish me luck!

Alan
_________________________

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#6719592 - 07/27/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: SpanielDog]
GreBb Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 733
Spaniel Dog,

Will the new 1600-B, in one of its seetings, give me the horizontal distance to the target?

Or will it only give me the actual distance and the angle and I would need to calculate the horizontal component?

Thank!

BBerg

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#6719637 - 07/27/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: GreBb]
firstcoueswas80 Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 8003
Loc: Arizona
Wow! That 1600b sounds incredible! Well worth the sticker price of $800. That sounds amazing!

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#6719860 - 07/27/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: ranger1]
gr8fuldoug Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/14/05
Posts: 5251
Loc: NYC, NY
Originally Posted By: ranger1
Thanks for the explanation SpanielDog. Looks like the 1600-B is the way to go.

Doug - Would you advise ordering now or could a guy wait until the shipment comes in and still get one?

If you order ahead of delivery you'll for sure get it sooner. It's not a long lead time so that would be best to assure delivery
_________________________
Doug @ Camera Land

gr8fuldoug@aol.com
http://www.cameralandny.com
516-217-1000

Thanks for the support.

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#6720176 - 07/27/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: gr8fuldoug]
SpanielDog Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 18
Thanks for the kind words GSSP, et al. GSSP, have you tried using the next flatter (lower numbered) curve? Since the 1600-B is telling you to use a little too much elevation, you might switch curves (go to curve 3 if you're set at curve 4). If it's closer at 875, test it closer in. Often, if the correction at the longest range is dead on, folks will use that one, because at the shorter distances, the differences are reduced, but not always.

BBerg, yes, the CRF 1600-B will give a compensated distance using all of the aforementioned parameters and measurements it incorporates. I try not to use terms like TBR or horizontal distance because they don't fully describe what it does (in my mind anyway).

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#6720228 - 07/27/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: SpanielDog]
Toolelk Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 554
Loc: Montana
Can the original 1600 be updated to the B software?

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#6728295 - 07/30/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: Toolelk]
GSSP Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 2983
Loc: Near Hobble Creek Canyon, Utah
SpanielDog,

I did run some non-shooting comparisons and it's a bit closer further out but farther away closer in. I need to do some actual shooting comparisons.

Thanks,

Alan

On another note, the 1600-B came in handy. The battery on the 1600 died while at this weekends Sniper Challenge and with the new 1600-B's ability to change ballistic curves quickly, I was able to change it from cure 3 to curve 5 in a matter of seconds for my partner's rifle. I couldn't do that with the 1600. Now, if Leica could just mix a wind meter in with the 1600-B, we'd really be jammin!
_________________________

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#6729255 - 07/30/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: GSSP]
Ebby Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2419
Loc: Middle TN
How does it work for archery? Is there a curve for bows? Will it at least give me the angle and actual distance or will it give me a "shoot to distance"? I will use mine mostly for rifle and like the programs but would also like sometihng that will work well during the archery season as well. It's the reason I haven't bitten the bullet on the Swaro EL Range yet and this might be the ticket.

Lee


Edited by Ebby (07/30/12)

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#6732195 - 07/31/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: Ebby]
SpanielDog Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 18
Hi ToolElk, unfortunately, it cannot.

Ebby, the unit will give you LOS range and angle if you wish, but the ballistic package doesn't activate within 100 yards. To get LOS range, then angle, simply range the target as normal, then press firmly and release the programming button once. After the range displays, "---" will briefly appear, followed by angle (in degrees), temp(in F or C), and station pressure (in inHg).

By the way, this is something else we changed in the 1600-B. The original 1600 gave station pressure in PSI the B model gives it in inches of Mercury.

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#6732513 - 07/31/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: SpanielDog]
Ebby Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2419
Loc: Middle TN
OK. Thanks for the explanation. I should be able to figure it out pretty easily though huh? I'll just need to range a few places around me and get the angles figured out before "big boy" shows up. Shouldn't be too tricky. Thanks

Lee

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#6732651 - 07/31/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: Ebby]
wsmnut Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 151
Loc: Rainy Washington State
My 1600B is on the FedEx truck for delivery today. Can't wait!
Thanks Cameraland!!!

Wsmnut
_________________________
Wsmnut

Belief is often the death of reason.

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#6734976 - 08/01/12 Re: Leica CRF 1600 and 1600B Differences [Re: gr8fuldoug]
gr8fuldoug Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/14/05
Posts: 5251
Loc: NYC, NY
We just received another shipment of these Leica CRF-1600B's
_________________________
Doug @ Camera Land

gr8fuldoug@aol.com
http://www.cameralandny.com
516-217-1000

Thanks for the support.

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