Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Caliber scarcity in Pre-64 Winchester Model 70

Has anybody ever put together good information on the relative scarcity of the various calibers offered in the pre-64 model 70?

It is certain that the 30-06 is by far the most common, followed by the .270. It's also certain that very few of the really rare caliber rifles (.250 Savage, .358 Win, etc) exist.

My question really is aimed at the number of less common (but not really rare) calibers, such as the .257 Roberts, .264 Win, .220 Swift, etc. Do we have reliable numbers on how many were made? If we don't have real numbers, how would you rank the calibers based on the numbers you've run across?

Rod

The "rifleman's rifle" book by Roger Rule lists numbers if you are truly interested...

Rod do you have a copy? If not I can copy the part of the rule book that lists the calibers scarcity. PM your email

PM sent. Thanks for your help!

Rod

The rarest calibers in M/70 were 9mm & 7.65 Argentine. +1 on the Rule book as listing the calibers in order of numbers produced.

They say there are more counterfeit rare cals. Then there are originals. That's why I stay away from them. Except off this one, it would be hard to counterfeit an African.

Rule lists the 300 Savage as the rarist "standard" cartridge, he also lists a total of 13,283 "specials" were made. The 9mm & 7.65 Argentina would have been part of those "specials" category. It may be difficult to say how many of these guns were chambered. There were only 362 in the 300 Savage.
Does anyone know what some other chamberings would have been in the catagory of "specials"?

Rod, did you get the PDF?

I don't know if it's called a "special" but I have seen one pre war chambered for 405 Winchester.

I have only seen one M70 in .35 Remington.

The 35 Rem is the second rarist in the Rule book. Win 458 is third.

Bob,
Curious do you remember the 405 much? Can you provide details as to how the barrel was marked and SN range? Any info is of interest. The rim on a 405 would have been problematic in the feed so I can see why so few. Was it on a standard length action our a "magnum" length action like used for the 300 & 375 H&H calibers?

There are rare "stadard" calibers and then there are special order calibers. The 405 would fit into the special order catagory.

LRF: It was awhile ago, but I remember the stock was low comb;serial number was low 5 digit and in any event "pre war".Dolls head tang, and I want to say it was a magnum action.I did not check the box but it may have been slanted.I don't recall any Super Grade markings and the stock was low comb standard grade.

The barrel was 375 or 458 profile, heavy but shorter...24"...it was the barrel and the length that caught my eye,because it did not "fit"....I remember saying to myself,looking at it from the counter into a glass case... "What's a pre war bolt handle doing on a short barreled 375 with a heavier contour?"...and the 458 came later so I knew it was not one of them..The configuration of the rifle was not like anything I knew of....

I asked the guy in charge could I see it? He opened the case, handed it to me and the markings were "405 Winchester",with the usual and ordinary proof marks and other stuff.I asked him about it,and he said they had a factory letter of authentication...the price was $17,000,and this was easily over 10 years ago.I was told there were two made,and no one seemed to know where the other one was located anymore.

Where it is today I have no idea. It was here in New England when I saw it.By that point I had seen examples in 35 Rem, 300 Savage,and at shows in Vegas the 9mm and the 7.65mm...in short, all of them that we are aware of...but never knew of the 405.I think if you dig deep inbto Rule's book you will see a footnote reference to the 405 having been made.I have not looked in a long time so this is from memory.

A mysterious rifle, indeed,and part of what makes pre 64's fun rifles.They have some history.

Perry County Firearms had two very nice 300 Savage pre 64's (believe there was a standard rifle and a carbine) a few months ago. They were both gone in a couple of days.

In order of most to least common, I believe it is:

.30-06
.270
.243
.308
.300 H&H Mag
.264 Win Mag
.22 Hornet
.220 Swift
.257 Roberts
.375 H&H Mag
.338 Win Mag
.300 Win Mag
.250-3000 Savage
.358 Win
7mm
.458 Win Mag
.35 Rem
.300 Savage

Thanks for the info on the 405, always have had a soft spot for the caliber even though there are many that are better. I will read the "Rule" for info on the 405, thanks again

According to Rule there may have been R&D M70s in 303 British,
6.5x55mm, 222 Rem and a few others.

I'e handled M70's in 25/35WCF and one marked 22/3000, and all the other markings looked right on the 22/3000.

BTW you can get the Rule book in paperback these days for < $100


worth it for the read.

a couple of years ago Mr Rule was living in Hawaii, when he graciously signed my hardback copy.

About $85 for a new paperback from Amazon last month. I picked one up just to peruse... Used hard covers were >$700...

I have heard and read that there are more fake rare caliber
rifles than real ones.