Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Caliber scarcity in Pre-64 Winchester Model 70

I've heard that also and I don't believe it for a second. I don't doubt that there are some fakes out there but to manufacture an entire barrel, get the correct roll marks, and make it all look real requires some sills that the person could be making more money honestly than faking rifles.

I was referring to 7MM, 7.65MM, and 9X57MM calibers mostly.

Don't get pissed, but I heard the same thing...Seems some guys were pretty damn good at faking them.....

Caveat emptor when purchasing any firearm....especially a pre 64 Model 70 in a rare caliber. Buy off a reputable dealer, or better yet know the seller personally.

Even if the seller is your best friend odds arde that he isn't the orignal buyer of the gun so th "train of evidence" is tainted.

I can tell you that there was ONE 25 Souper ( 25/308 ) Made because I had it in my hands and it had a Winchester Letter of Documentation . Somewhere in the dim , dark past I read that the 7.65 MM and 9X57 MM were produced in the low double Digits . Don't hold me to this but I think like maybe 30 or less . I have also seen and held these but cannot verify they were "real". The prices were beyond what I could afford at the time . Almost all of the original 7.65s and 9X57s , were originally shipped to Europe .How many made it back ...who knows ? Some years ago , the Winchester rolling Dies which imprint the Caliber were purchased by a private party . I've talked to some high end Dealers who told me that even the Boxes and Hang tags have been faked on some of these super rare Pre 64s . I've seen plenty of Pre 64s , but don't feel confident anymore of really telling which of the super rare ones are real , however , if I found one at a great price , I would'nt pass it up .

I'd personally be very leary about buying any "super rare" pre 64 model 70 at any price!! That's why I'll just stick to the least desireable 308's, 30-06's and 270's.....Just sayin..Make mine a fwt though

I know this is an old thread but reading through there is some misinformation listed. The rarest caliber gun combination is the pre 64 model 70 .308 in STANDARD grade. I had an opportunity to purchase one back in the 80's new in box for $5,000.00. I believe it is worth around 10 times that amount today NIB. The .308 was only cataloged in the featherweight model 70.

Thunderstruck60: Indeed that would be a VALUABLE and ultra-rare Rifle.
Tough one to quantify in rarity amongst the ultra-rares.
I would LOVE to own it!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Very, very unlikely that anyone would ever pay $50,000.00 for a NIB 308 Standard Rifle. Where did that number come from? Winchester also cataloged the 308 in the Super Grade Fwt configuration....

One of the high end dealers put that number out there. According to him there are only 3 known

Unless my memory is failing, the 308 in FW SG configuration is the rarest Super Grade Featherweight.

That 405 Winchester i saw had a factory letter with it and a price of $17,000. But this was a quite a few years ago now.

It is impossible to quantify this statement, but it very likely is true. The market has been flooded with superb fakes. We have done microscopic / forensic examination of a number of rare chamberings and have absolutely identified some fakes which, to the naked eye, are virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. We have seen counterfeit barrel stamps for the .300 Savage and 7M/M. No doubt there are others.

I would not advise anyone ever purchase a rare/valuable model 70 chambering on a rifle which does not have a documented provenance. To do otherwise is to potentially throw good money after a worthless rifle. Worse yet, you could be supporting a very active counterfeit rifle market which is targeting model 70 enthusiasts.

My 2-cents. Take it for what it is worth.

Justin

Throwing good hard cash at a fake would indeed be a very large bitter pill to swallow.

I know of a mint std in 308. $8000 firm.

Good post.

Whats a standard 243 worth?

BobinNH: I would like to know the answer to your question as well.
I have two mint condition pre-64 Model 70 Standard Rifles in caliber 243 Winchester. And as I turn 70 next year I am going to start selling down my collection "at a convenient time" instead of leaving that task to uninformed heirs.
I ignore gunbroker for the very most part as scams thereon, anymore, are 10 times more prevalent than in person or at gunshows - so I really can not answer your question directly. And my 243's have been in my collection for so long I have forgotten what I paid for them.
I have always liked the pre-64 Model 70 243's and have 11 of them total, including Targets, Varmints and Featherweights along with the Standards.
I have not seen an original, collector quality, 243 Standard Rifle at a gunshop/gunshow/gunsale in a LONG, LONG time!
Long live the Riflemans Rifles!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG: I am guessing north of a couple of grand?

The answer to your question is nowhere near the value of a standard .308 win.