Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 300 Whisper...

Fair enough, as well. I'd add that the 9/147 at subsonic speed is operating precisely in the ballistic window for which it was developed and has been extensively tested and proven therein. None of the commonly-used heavies for the .30 were developed for use in a subsonic role with terminal performance in mind. That new 110gr Barnes was developed for the .300, but in the supersonic loads. It looks great in that role, btw. Still, we're purely counting on the heavy .30s tumbling while in tissue for terminal effect. This tumbling may not happen until the projectile is well through the target, if at all. Even then, tumbling alone has been shown to be marginal for terminal effect. We've seen that in the 5.56/7.62x39, etc research and performance over the years.

Check out Outlaw State Bullets. They make custom subsonic expanding bullets in two sizes for .308 caliber rifles. 225 grain .308 bullet thats hollowpoint and another 220 grain round nose expanding at subsonic velocities bullets. I have used them for 3 years and shot a pile of deer with them. They blow big nasty holes out the far side of deer and turn the chest into jello.

That's a bit more interesting. I'll check it out for the .308.

Those look pretty interesting. The 220g spitzer will get some testing along with the 208g A-MAX.

Accurate Arms sent me some .300 Blackout load data that uses AA1680, something I have a bunch of for my Marlin .375 Winchester. That includes data for the 130g TTSX. So now I've got data from Hodgdon, Hornady, Barnes, Accurate and the recommended subsonic load from http://300aacblackout.com/.

has anyone here tried the Cadiz Gunworks "'Econo-Can" supressor?

It's basically an adapter that screws on to the end of the rifle and you then screw on an oil filter. $75 plus the $200 NFA tax. Looks like fun...

http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/monthly_09_2010/post-2142-036221300%201285340168_thumb.jpg

I agree with your point and the one I made. When you're subsonic, the more bullet mass, the better. You're taking velocity off the table as the "killer", as in speed kills, so mass is the only way to up the power.

I have suppressed .22 LR's, in fact three guns that will work with the same suppressor. A 220 gr. Sierra, out of the .300 Whisper, does thump'em a lot harder than a subsonic .22LR round...

It just doesn't have the wallop of a big bore, heavy slug at the same speed.

DF

but you have shot more than I have ever seen ......remember

Not to beat a dead horse, but today I received load data from Accurate Arms. They say �1680 is the powder of choice�, which is fortunate for me as I have quite a bit on hand. (It is my �powder of choice� for my Marlin .375 Winchester.) Interestingly, they had a sub and supersonic (barely) load for the Berger 230g TH-OTM bullet.

From my earlier post, here is the data for a subsonic 9mm/147g:

1090fps = Federal Hydra-Shok fastest recorded velocity (14-15� barrel, longer barrels were slower)
.193 = Calculated Ballistic Coefficient (based on matching Federal�s velocity tables)

0 yds = 1090fps/388fpe/-1.5�
100 yds = 975fps/310fpe/-0�
200yds = 895fps/262fpe/-35.0�
300 yds = 832fps/226fpe/-113.0�

Looking at Accurate�s starting (subsonic) load for the 230g Berger TH-OTM bullet:
1106fps
.719 Ballistic Coefficient per Berger

0 yds = 1106fps/625fpe/-1.5�
100 yds = 1067fps/581fpe/-0�
200 yds = 1033fps/545fpe/-29.0�
300 yds = 1004fps/515fpe/-90.5�
400 yds = 977fps/488fpe/-186.1�
500 yds = 954fps/464fpe/-318.6�
1000 yds = 857fps/375fpe/-1584.2�

Granted, this isn�t the load I�d want to be using at long ranges but the 230g Berger does hold its velocity and energy very well. Unfortunately it can�t go much faster, either � 1288fps is the top load. For fun, here�s the stats for that:

0 yds = 1288fps/847fpe/-1.5�
100 yds = 1225fps/767fpe/-0�
200 yds = 1170fps/699fpe/-21.7�
300 yds = 1122fps/643fpe/-68.9�
400 yds = 1080fps/596fpe/-143.2�
500 yds = 1045fps/558fpe/-247.5�
1000 yds = 919fps/431fpe/-1278.2�

Subsonics may be fun but they aren�t what I�ll run if hunting. The Hornady 110g V-MAX, 110g Barnes TAC-X or 125g Ballistic Tip are more likely. Here�s the data for the 110g TAC-X (Barnes H110 data):
.289 = Ballistic Coefficient
0 yds = 2415fps/1424fpe/-1.5�
100 yds = 2141fps/1120fpe/-0�
200 yds = 1885fps/867fpe/-6.0�
300 yds = 1651fps/666fpe/-22.2�
400 yds = 1441fps/507fpe/-50.8�
500 yds = 1266fps/391fpe/-96.8�
1000 yds = 867fps/184fpe/-747.7�

Bullet drop is close enough and the price is right enough that 110g V-MAX loads would make a good practice load to pair with the 110g TAC-X.

The speed of sound is around 1130fps.

Be careful claiming subsonic ammo as it's fastest speed, it has to be below 1130fps.

The 230gr Berger will punch a 30 caliber hole and keep on going.

The 147gr bullet designed to open up at sub sonic speeds will do more damage in flesh.

The new 30cal bullets linked to above make it a moot point and do give the 300BK the lead.

Enjoy your 300BK. Now go shoot the dang thing would ya?

TRW -

Already shot both barrels to test function with the ammo and mags I had available - Hornady 110g V-MAX and Bitterroot 45g FMJ. Probably no more than 20 rounds total, so hardly a torture test.

Probably won't get to the range this weekend due to other priorities, including the Tanner gun show in Denver. Need to get some more .300 brass and bullets, including Hornady 208g A-MAX. Hopefully I can find a reliable subsonic play load for the 208g A-MAX as they are half the cost of the other heavies.

It's a bad time here too, I've had an upper together almost 2 weeks and have yet to shoot it.

I think I/we sometimes get to wrapped up in numbers that don't mean squat. What we need to do is just go out and kill stuff with em and then decide if we like em or not.

to add some random notes about the .300 Blk:

The OAL of factory ammo is around 2.080 or so. I found that my gun ran just fine with the bullet seated out to mag length, say 2.24. That change likely helped the accuracy. So far all I have loaded for it is some 220 Matchkings, but I do have some 110 TTSX to try.

A subsonic 220 Matchking will leave a decent blood when you shoot a deer. Indeed I followed the trail for a while before I watched the deer run over a hill ~200 yards away and disappear on the next ranch over. I believe I hit the deer too high, hence the lost animal, even though I think a .270 would have flattened the animal Expanding bullet or not, based on one data point, placement is critical, with the subsonic loads.

1680 apparently works for both sub and supersonic loads, and is also good for the 7.62x39, so that's what I would probably try first.

Great and succinct summary of the issue. I'd shoot a deer 100y away with an expanding 147 9mm. I would not have confidence in a traditional .30 cal bullet at any range when traveling subsonic. Now, people, possums, coyotes, etc..... sure thing. Game recovery isn't an issue there so no worries.

I'll also disagree somewhat with the assertion that mass is the only factor that can improve terminal performance at subsonic speed. That's why I'd do a .338 Spectre before I'd do a .300 W/BO. Frontal area can contribute to terminal performance when bullets are otherwise similar or the same.

Subsonic expanding bullets make it all more interesting, as I've said.

"but you have shot more than I have ever seen ......remember"

I can never forget how you educated me in the wise ways of the forum, O Great One. I am once again, humbled by your response.

as it should be........