Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire I heard Rick Jamison won his lawsuit.............

Jim, it seems to me that Rick would have been under contract with Shooting Times stating that any thing written or developed while working for Shooting Times would remain the property of Shooting Times. Same going for any development work done directly for Winchester or whom ever! If that wasn't the case shame on them. If Rick did the developement work and wasn't restricted by any such clause. Then he deserves his fair share, in both moneys and credit. On a side note back in the 80's and 90's the art of patent infringment grew all out of proporten. One case was with Catipillar I believe and their logo. And the rampant stealing of dot.com's that had be neglectfully not renewed. Even Bill Gates found this out when Microsoft.com had been forgotten about. The guy that re-registered it turned back around and sold it to him for $10, he had done it as a prank. Others weren't so lucky. I thought they had passed laws against such tactics. So the only thing I can see is that if the courts ruled in Ricks favor, then they must of had good cause. Or a settlement was reached to avoid bad publicty, high cost of a court battle, and possible large jury award. This also has turned into a new scam. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Phil

Is that patent online?

Is anybody here privy to the details and actual transcripts of the case, and is anybody here privy to the actual settlement in question?

Facts would be nice here instead of conjecture. I will be happy to reconsider my opinion if someone can present me with the actual facts of the case and the judgement of the court, which is the only "opinion" that really matters.

Until then, ALL other opinions, mine included, are simply that - uneducated opinions.



PS: I usually refrain from posting opinions, as mine is no more valid than anybody else's. I just get fed up with everybody throwing the "innocent until proven guilty " concept out the window and lynching everybody and his brother based on nothing. If someone can prove to me that Rick Jamison's case is totally baseless and Browning caved in solely to avoid a costly legal battle then yes, he is a money grubbing whore. But until anybody here does that, based on court records and only on court records, I will give the man the benefit of the doubt, just as I give it to anyone.

The only relevent issue is who was smart enough to patent the idea first. He might be a whore but the thing about whores and lawyers is that they always get paid! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Better paid than being another sideline chump wishing you would have thought of the same thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

No one here is privy to any of the facts of the case � not legally, and probably not at all � unless he's party to the suit or an officer of the court, and even such a one can not reveal anything. The court papers pertaining to the case and the details of the settlement are sealed � secret, as in not available to the press or the public. As consultant to Browning on the case, I'm as close to it as any other outsider, and I can not learn the details of the settlement or the bases for it.

Fine with me.

But facts have little to do with the opinions of opinionated opiners, so go at it all you want.

.

Issued patents (not sure how far back they go) are online. The one and only live patent issued to a Jamison is this one, issued to John R., of Springfield OR:

Are opiners in the opossum family? Is there an open season?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Denton,

If you search USPTO with Jamison as Inventors Name (IN) you will find (inter alia):

6,675,717
6,678,983

both covering ultra-short rifle cartridges.

At a quick reading I am not sure which claims were infringed by Winchester/Browning or Remington for that matter.

jim

Ken, not always sure if you're whipping me or patting me on the back. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But that is my point - opinions too often have too little to do with anything factual.

Hopefully I will take a deep breath and settle down, and this will be my last post on this subject. Very little bothers me in this world, but injustice and prejudice is definitely in the "bother me" category. Too often I sit here and see peoples' names dragged through the mud based on nothing.

Craig Boddington is an a--hole. Elmer Keith is a pumped up egotist who lied about all his shooting feats. So and so is this and that, almost always negative comments and always by people who never met the folks in question.

That negative name calling just burns my hide and my integrity will not allow me to sit idly by and see this anymore.

Maybe the people in question are whores, a--holes, egotists and liars, and probably a very small minority of the "names" in the gun business really are one or more of these. But we don't know that and until it is proven to me that they are indeed nasty people, I will always assume the the best about people and speak out against those who don't.

Okay- my outburst is through. Too much Christmas spirit in conflict with too much negativity I see all around me.

Good find!!

Checkout this text of one of the Jamison patents

United States Patent 5,826,361
Jamison October 27, 1998
Short-action chamber and bolt assembly for high power firearm cartridge

Abstract

A firearm cartridge case capable of withstanding internal gas pressures of at least about 50,000 psi has two substantially cylindrical portions of significantly different diameters interconnected by a frusto-conical shoulder portion. The case has a ratio of its overall length to its diameter, at a location 1.25 inch from its base, of no more than about 4.2, giving it an unusually short, fat profile. The base of the case has a rim with an outer diameter substantially no less than the case diameter at the aforementioned location, to facilitate reliable feeding of the cartridge from the magazine. The corresponding firearm chamber which matingly accepts the cartridge is capable of withstanding internal gas pressures of at least about 65,000 psi. A short-action bolt assembly smoothly and reliably feeds and chambers each cartridge by providing an extractor grippingly engageable with the cartridge by movement of the cartridge transversely to the bolt face when the bolt is in its unlocked position, so as to grip the cartridge while the bolt pushes the cartridge into the chamber.
Inventors: Jamison; John R. (84784 Christensen Rd., Eugene, OR 97405)
Appl. No.: 818440
Filed: March 17, 1997

Current U.S. Class: 42/25; 42/16
Intern'l Class: F41A 003/00
Field of Search:



Looks to me like the Winchester/Browning Patent Attorneys goofed.

HBB

Rick Jamison invented a modem interface? Is it a short fat one?

Sorry -- but that's the patent I came up with when I clicked on the link... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> "copy and paste" -- what a concept -- that works! Pretty interesting reading -- He does reference Palmaisano and Pindell, but claims a unique combination of case, chamber and bolt design to make it all work.

You know -- I don't think you can fault the guy for being smart enough to put the patent application together and make it stick. And if he patented it before Winchester/Browning developed their WSM line -- then the law is on his side, whether it makes sense or you like it or not.

As an old friend in Wyoming used to say:

"It may not be right, but it is so."

In this case, it may even be right...

I reworked my post and just put in the text of the Patent Info



HBB

Umm- so just how does this affect the buying public? Last I checked it still was the 300 WSM and not the 300 Jamison or anything else - 99% of the buying public will never even be aware of this.

Methinks there are other things more important - like how come I can't get a Ruger M77 Mk II (crf) with the tang safety? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And I reworked my post to point out that if I had followed your directions to copy and paste I would have found the right patent <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HBB

If "Browning is happy", I guess it is case closed.
I still don't agree with it, but it is not my business.
BTW, glad to see you back and posting ,Sir!
cat

It's been an established principle in the gun world that metallic cartridges are public domain, open to anyone's tinkering. It's a figgin brass cylinder shaped and reshaped... "intellectual property" doesn't enter into it except for mental midgets. Jamison was savvy enough to patent "his idea" and savvy enough to sue... he should, however, be hounded out of the shooting community for violating established principles of behavior.

Brad,



Positively I agree. One of the posters listed some adjetives to describe some folks in the shooting business. It seems to me most apply to our unfriend Rick.

I don't think it is right to be too tough on Rick.

If he made no new contribution to the state of the art, his patent cannot be enforced. The fact that he was successful in enforcing it, even in an out of court settlement, says that he probably did make such a contribution. If he hadn't, the attorneys would be pounding his claim out of existence with "prior art" or "obvious to anyone skilled in the art".

If he did make a contribution, however slight, he's entitled to the proceeds of his contribution.

It's fairly easy to get a patent, but they aren't worth much until you have successful enforcement.