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I'm not a handgun guy, I would just take a 22 rifle like a ruger 10/22 and a couple of boxes of ammo along with an extra magazine. Most will be able to shoot a rifle a lot better than a handgun. Or a Marlin 336 in 30-30 plenty light and plenty for most pests either four or two legged. I understand the Idea of handguns, I carried one for 30 years. I still carry from time to time, I just can shoot a rifle better. In the end carry what ever it is you want to carry.


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Originally Posted by bigwhoop
Good points here by Brad and DW. While I can carry, I prefer the chemical irritants.
Pretty dam effective for man or beast and a lot less paperwork and court time.
For protection in my home, "Condition One" is the rule of the day.


I'm sure Hugh Glass would debate the chemical irritant...


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Oh, Ravery, I forgot to apologize for the loss of your kin many years ago. We had this handgun topic come up many years ago on Whiteblaze. Someone researched the topic and the vast majority of the murders that have happened in the history of the AT have happened NEAR THE SHELTERS. Smart folks stay away from them. I use a hammock and typically hang somewhere out of view of the trail.

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Originally Posted by gmsemel
I'm not a handgun guy, I would just take a 22 rifle like a ruger 10/22 and a couple of boxes of ammo along with an extra magazine. Most will be able to shoot a rifle a lot better than a handgun. Or a Marlin 336 in 30-30 plenty light and plenty for most pests either four or two legged. I understand the Idea of handguns, I carried one for 30 years. I still carry from time to time, I just can shoot a rifle better. In the end carry what ever it is you want to carry.



EVERYBODY shoots a rifle better than they do a handgun. That isn't the point, and advising an AT hiker to carry a 30/30 marlin for "self-protection" is about the nuttiest thing I've ever read on the fire.

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Originally Posted by CoalCracker
I ask this because I have seen threads in the handgun forum and elsewhere suggesting that your run-of-the-mill, life-long "gun guy" really shouldn't even consider self-defense with a firearm unless they have a high level of expensive civilian training or LEO/military training. But I am of the opinion that if I really needed a gun, nothing else would suffice, and I wonder whether being around guns since almost forever, coupled with a dose of common sense, would be "good enough".


I can't speak for Brad or others, but I think the difference is consequence management. If you flub a shot on a deer, there's only minor consequences. Outside of sanctioned combat, the consequences of firing on another person are severe, even if you're vindicated, as a civilian. In uniform, we get a pass by the populace because we're shooting at "enemies" and not "people." In every case as a civilian, be prepared to face additional scrutiny from all corners on the use of lethal force.

As Heidi Smith, she of Thunder Ranch, likes to opine, "there's a lawyer attached to every bullet. How many lawyers to you want to let loose?"

I guess it's down to this, in a combat situation and I shoot the guy and its on the edge, it will be perceived to be a righteous shooting unless there's strong evidence otherwise. As a civilian, if I pull my weapon, there had better be a significant amount of evidence that I was in fear for my life or limb before I fire, and the "fear" bar is much higher. The statute of limitations on murder is forever, and if at any time any authority who may have had jurisdiction over the shooting determines there was foul play, you'll have to defend yourself in court again.

Double jeopardy, sadly, has been interpreted as a jurisdictional thing. Meaning, the City gets a shot at you, then the county, then the state, then the US for a civil rights violation.

Extensive training as a civilian is valuable if for no other reason than learning this, paraphrased from Jeff Cooper:

Did you shoot to kill?
"no"
Did you shoot to wound?"
"no."
Then why did you shoot XYZ ### number of times?
"He did ____ that put me in fear for my life."
So you shot him until he was dead?
"No. I shot him until he stopped doing that. Then I called 911 and rendered first aid."

Also, training teaches you to yell things like "Stop! Stop! Drop the knife! Someone call the police." And how to draw your weapon in a manner that causes the aggressor to correctly interpret your willingness to shoot them (not shoot at them, shoot them. They look different) and to cause the aggressor to retreat, which is better for everybody.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter if you shoot first or yell first (well, yell first is preferred), most witnesses will remember yelling and shooting, in that order. Thank God for preconditioning by cop shows.

In a civilian on civilian situation, you're never really done.

Don't even get me started on what happens when you try to return to your "normal" civilian life and everyone knows you shot someone. There's volumes and volumes to suggest you'll never get your life back.

Last edited by David_Walter; 09/12/12.

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Good post!


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Originally Posted by Take_a_knee
Originally Posted by noKnees
its a little late to suggest buying a new gun.. but this is my answer to your question.

[Linked Image]

12 oz 357, I carry a full power 158g load in it.


Unfortunately no longer produced...but I got mine.


Got mine too... perfect for bear country. I know everybody prefers spray.. but it's the last thing I want when something's got me down, chewing on me. Can't say Hi-V ammo is fun to shoot in this though - probably why it's not made anymore. It's got a bite.

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I have the pleasure to live in bear. lion and coyote country and walk my dog daily in it. She wears a bell and I carry a Ruger LCR in .38 Spcl with a max load.
The only issue that I have ever had was with some urbanized coyotes in a state park.
Where I go in the back country by my home my friend's Airedale jumped a mountain lion earlier this year. The lion is my biggest fear, more for the dog than me. With the bell, I seldom see anything but an occasional snake.
Last week I was hunting grouse in the Flattops and we came up on a cow and bull moose, the rut had started. Now that is a bigger problem than any black bear that I have ever encountered. Having three rounds of #6 shot is not very comforting. Fortunately, we were able to skirt around them before the bull got too agitated.

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Count me as one who is not enamored with the thought of OC spray as a first line of defense. There are a lot of reasons for the popularity of the Taser these days and a big one is spotty results from OC. A meth head with his pain receptors burned out just might not fall to the ground from a shot of spray in his face.

It would also seem less than ideal if said bad guy, bent on destruction, did not have an aversion to firearms. If the bad guys would stick to just packing OC then I might reconsider but I sure would hate to show up at a gun fight with just a spray bottle of hot sauce to hide behind. shocked

Because the OP opened the door to a new gun my choice would be S&W MP in 9MM or the Gen 3 G19. Tupperware pistols are hard to stomach but 17 rnds of very effective ammo in a relatively small and light package seems to me to be the best answer to the question.

With the advances in what is termed �Barrier Blind� defensive ammo no bears skull is going to stop one of the new breed of 9MM +P loads. These loads were developed to not defect on intermediate barriers such as automobile glass and still deliver very good terminal results.

2 legged predators would be more of a concern but keep in mind even coons and skunks can be a problem. 40,000 people a year get treated for rabies here in the good old US of A, and the vectors are almost exclusively bites from wildlife. Hard to bring the skunk in that bit you if you only have OC spray.

I have packed a Scandium 329PD a few miles and it is hard to beat but more and more these days the Tupperware gets carried even in grizzly country.

I must need a different holster because my poor ol 329 sure has a lot of wear compared to some. cool
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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I must need a different holster because my poor ol 329 sure has a lot of wear compared to some.


John, that looks like a carry gun and not a BBQ gun!


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Count me as one who is not enamored with the thought of OC spray as a first line of defense. There are a lot of reasons for the popularity of the Taser these days and a big one is spotty results from OC. A meth head with his pain receptors burned out just might not fall to the ground from a shot of spray in his face.


While some of what you write here is true, I am inclined to ask how many times you've been sprayed. And how many time you've been tased?

Also, whether you intend to use it or not, having a can of bear spray on you is simply not a bad idea these days. At least you can spray the dead critter afterward... grin

Oh and since it is Friday, GFY...


Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by deflave

Also, whether you intend to use it or not, having a can of bear spray on you is simply not a bad idea these days. At least you can spray the dead critter afterward... grin

Travis

So, you season your game with pepper spray prior to cooking? grin


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Originally Posted by doubletap
Originally Posted by deflave

Also, whether you intend to use it or not, having a can of bear spray on you is simply not a bad idea these days. At least you can spray the dead critter afterward... grin

Travis

So, you season your game with pepper spray prior to cooking? grin


I wish. Bears are my white whale. The only ones I see are the size of my lab, or protected.

I guess I could try it on venison?


Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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just bought the exact gun, will be packing it theis weekend on a 3day backpack elk archery hunt




Originally Posted by viking
How about that new Ruger SP 100? The five shot, 4 inch "kit gun". Take a few snake shot, a few 38's and a few full power 357's and hit the trail.

If I had to choose from what I have it would be my Taurus 44 mag tracker.

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DW,

Thanks for the thoughtful response to my questions. There is a lot to process there.

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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Count me as one who is not enamored with the thought of OC spray as a first line of defense. There are a lot of reasons for the popularity of the Taser these days and a big one is spotty results from OC. A meth head with his pain receptors burned out just might not fall to the ground from a shot of spray in his face.


While some of what you write here is true, I am inclined to ask how many times you've been sprayed. And how many time you've been tased?

Also, whether you intend to use it or not, having a can of bear spray on you is simply not a bad idea these days. At least you can spray the dead critter afterward... grin

Oh and since it is Friday, GFY...


Travis


Never been sprayed with real OC but have been in the gas chamber with out a mask and the old MACE. Never been tased.

Never been shot with a 9mm or .45 either if that was the next question. laugh

I fugure I got enough stuff to carry and if I have room for spray I have room for an extra mag instead.

I will take a pistol over spray especially when dealing with 2 legged critters that will most likely have a pistol of their own.



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My only point is that it is very effective. And there is a difference between being in actual backcountry and being in places like the AT and National Parks.


Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Something big enough for things bigger than humans. I'll stay with my 3" barrel Model 629.


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My favorite woods carry is a 2 1/2" .44 mag Taurus tracker. 300gr XTP's loaded "warm". Not a fun range gun :P

I have a few others, but it's the most comfortable for me to carry while hiking.


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Originally Posted by CoalCracker
DW,

Thanks for the thoughtful response to my questions. There is a lot to process there.


Shooting people is a "think first" type of thing. I've already decided what would cause me to draw my weapon and fire on a person in combat and in civilian situations.

Civilian situations are a lot more complicated because they involve more variables. Like "it's going to cost me $100,000 to defend my self after shooting this jackss for stealing $25. Is that worth it?" In my mind, I've already decided to shoot before I would draw my weapon, and the only thing that would change that is some extremely positive development in the altercation. So, the bar for me to draw is pretty high.

Combat's more like "he's shooting or going to shoot at me or my people, and I need to prevent that." In that case, I'm carrying my rifle openly, and anyone who points a weapon at me is asking to get shot.


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