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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Doubletap has a 200gr WFNGC load for the 40SW. DT claims 1050 fps from a Glock 23. It might be one of the better 40 loads for deep penetration and tissue damage.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=210

DT also sells the bullets alone, if you want to load some yourself.



I'll have to order some of those to try in my little .40cal Springfield EMP. It's quickly become one of may favorite little CHL carry guns when I'm not wearing my Glock .32 in .357sig. Are they accurate in your gun?


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Originally Posted by Steelringer
".40cal MAY work for 2 legged critters..."

That's funny right there. Try WILL instead.


I know. And i also know the .40cal Glock is the preferred & proven gun of choice for probably 80% of Federal, State, & City Law Enforcement Agencies.
But I still prefer a .45acp or .357sig when I drive through the "bad" part of town.


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Originally Posted by GF1
Big and slow; and file down the front sight on that .40...


LOL. Is that so you can use it for a suppository ???


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Originally Posted by justin10mm
I've finished off a couple hogs with the .40 using 180gr. Winchester hollow points. I will say to stay away from any expanding bullets at .40 velocity. They just don't have the penetration potential.

Some are suggesting hard cast bullets but that would make me nervous shooting lead out of a factory Glock barrel. If it were me I'd find some good 180gr-200gr flat nose FMJs to load up.


I've noticed from your previous posts that your a 10mm fan. I agree that the .40cal is not a great choice for bear, & I would Much Prefer my 10mm Glock with heavy 200gr XTP's going 1300fps or Buffalo Bore 220gr LBT type bullets at 1150fps.

That being said, the OP sounds like he is pretty firm on sticking with his Glock .40 for backpack Bowhunts. With that caliber, he would be MUCH better off with a big, wide, heavy Cast Bullet at around 1000fps.

People are often confused by Glocks warning Not to shoot lead bullets. Please let me clarify that Glock is giving that warning because most people load soft lead or cheap swaged lead bullets, which can lead to lead build-up in Glock Barrels. Which could lead to unsafe pressures and a bulged or burst barrel.

If you or the OP sticks to strictly HARD Cast bullets, there is no danger in shooting them through your Glock. I've fired several thousand rounds of hard cast bullets though my various Glock Models over the years without barrel leading or dangerous pressures. This includes a Glock 17 that I used for IPSC competition that fired many thousands of rounds of 147gr hard cast 9mm bullets.

BTW, I've killed tons of feral hogs here on the ranch up to 400lbs with about every common pistol caliber in my safe. I took a friend bow hunting who was packing a .40cal Glock. He had to use it on a big boar that he made a poor shot on with his bow. He was using 165gr JHP ammo, & the Penatration was not good on a big 300lb boar. While we were field dressing the hog, he complained how it took several shots to put the boar down with his .40cal Glock
Later, that day, I shot a big Boar with my Glock 20-10mm using 200gr XTP's.
While we were field dressing my boar, I showed him the difference in Penatration & tissue damage between his .40cal & my 10mm.
He went to the gun store the next day & traded his Glock .40 for a Glock 10mm.
Now he's like Ted Nugent... He never leaves home without his Glock 10mm


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Originally Posted by chlinstructor


That being said, the OP sounds like he is pretty firm on sticking with his Glock .40 for backpack Bowhunts. With that caliber, he would be MUCH better off with a big, wide, heavy Cast Bullet at around 1000fps.



I think it's the OP's preference that has boggled a lot of people's brains on this thread. SU35 says he doesn't want to carry anything bigger than his Glock 40 cal, and that's the limiting factor. Some folks won't accept that and want to change the discussion, others say they're willing to play along. I have one foot in each camp.

On the one foot, I'm of the opinion that he can do any damn thing he pleases, as long as it does no harm to me. On that basis, I opined that he'd best use a 200 gr bullet, either a flatnose cast bullet or an XTP. Something heavy that will really penetrate.

On the other foot: If the weight/size of the Glock 23 is the OP's primary consideration, well, there's lots of other Glock handguns the same size that have more power than the 40 S&W. These include the 10mm, which would be arguably better choices for shooting bears. Moreover, there's modest-sized revolvers in 357 Magnum, 41 Magnum, 44 Magnum, and 45 Colt that come close to fitting the size/weight bill, and pack a helluva lot more wallop than the 40 S&W.

So the OP's insistence that we have to restrict the discussion to his 40 caliber Glock because of size/weight doesn't really hold up.

What it seems to come down to is a guy who already has a handgun (perhaps his only handgun?) and he doesn't want to buy or carry another handgun, even though the handgun he's got is marginal for the task. And he wants other folks to endorse his intention of using this marginal caliber handgun by recommending a load that stretches his handgun's performance to the very limit. And that's an endorsement I'm just not comfortable making.

It's a "right-tool-for-the-job" issue, IMHO. I might be real comfortable with my light and handy M1 Carbine, but I'd be a damn fool to pack it along expecting to kill bears or moose with it. I'd be smarter to pack a bear/moose caliber rifle and leave the M1 at home. Similarly, if I'm thinking I'm likely to have to shoot a bear or a moose with a pistola, I'd best be packing a pistola that's proven capable of reliably stopping bears and moose.

I guess that's all I have to say about this thread.

Last edited by DocRocket; 09/19/12.

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Originally Posted by Steelringer
".40cal MAY work for 2 legged critters..."

That's funny right there. Try WILL instead.

There are no guarantees that any handgun round will work on 2-legged varmints.

The only way to insure a man stops in his tracks is a central nervous system (brain and/or spine) solid hit.

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I also agree with the DT 200gr WFNGC suggestion. I have shot them through my little Kahr MK40. Not too bad. Only issue is that they are too long to eject a live round through the ejection port. I have to remove the mag and let the round fall through the grip.


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Originally Posted by 700xcr


That is the bullet I've used on hogs. It is a great bullet design but IMO the .40 cant push it fast enough for optimal performance. Just not enough penetration potential.

I shot a 150 pound wounded sow at about 5 yards in the shoulder and the shoulder/leg bone stopped the bullet. The bone was cracked but I had to pry the bullet out with a screw driver. A flat point FMJ or hard cast would have gone through and penetrated into the vitals no question.

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Originally Posted by Magnumdood
Originally Posted by Steelringer
".40cal MAY work for 2 legged critters..."

That's funny right there. Try WILL instead.

There are no guarantees that any handgun round will work on 2-legged varmints.

The only way to insure a man stops in his tracks is a central nervous system (brain and/or spine) solid hit.


I can attest to that personally. smile

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Originally Posted by DocRocket
Originally Posted by chlinstructor


That being said, the OP sounds like he is pretty firm on sticking with his Glock .40 for backpack Bowhunts. With that caliber, he would be MUCH better off with a big, wide, heavy Cast Bullet at around 1000fps.



I think it's the OP's preference that has boggled a lot of people's brains on this thread. SU35 says he doesn't want to carry anything bigger than his Glock 40 cal, and that's the limiting factor. Some folks won't accept that and want to change the discussion, others say they're willing to play along. I have one foot in each camp.

On the one foot, I'm of the opinion that he can do any damn thing he pleases, as long as it does no harm to me. On that basis, I opined that he'd best use a 200 gr bullet, either a flatnose cast bullet or an XTP. Something heavy that will really penetrate.

On the other foot: If the weight/size of the Glock 23 is the OP's primary consideration, well, there's lots of other Glock handguns the same size that have more power than the 40 S&W. These include the 10mm, which would be arguably better choices for shooting bears. Moreover, there's modest-sized revolvers in 357 Magnum, 41 Magnum, 44 Magnum, and 45 Colt that come close to fitting the size/weight bill, and pack a helluva lot more wallop than the 40 S&W.

So the OP's insistence that we have to restrict the discussion to his 40 caliber Glock because of size/weight doesn't really hold up.

What it seems to come down to is a guy who already has a handgun (perhaps his only handgun?) and he doesn't want to buy or carry another handgun, even though the handgun he's got is marginal for the task. And he wants other folks to endorse his intention of using this marginal caliber handgun by recommending a load that stretches his handgun's performance to the very limit. And that's an endorsement I'm just not comfortable making.

It's a "right-tool-for-the-job" issue, IMHO. I might be real comfortable with my light and handy M1 Carbine, but I'd be a damn fool to pack it along expecting to kill bears or moose with it. I'd be smarter to pack a bear/moose caliber rifle and leave the M1 at home. Similarly, if I'm thinking I'm likely to have to shoot a bear or a moose with a pistola, I'd best be packing a pistola that's proven capable of reliably stopping bears and moose.

I guess that's all I have to say about this thread.


Agreed! Also makes a lot of good common sense, as all of your posts do, Doc.
If I'm backpacking or bowhunting in an area where black bears could pose a problem, I want the best tool possible regardless of size or weight. Preferably a 12ga with heavy slugs!

But where weight & size are a big carry concern, my 10mm Glock or Smith & Wesson Mountain Revolver are going to seem awfully light & small, should I have an encounter with a pissed off black bear!
15 rounds of heavy 10mm rounds or 6 rounds of heavy 300gr 44mag LBT bullets are a lot more comforting than a .40cal when on the trail or in a tiny backpacking tent. I know I personally sleep better in my tent if I bring along either of those two "back pack" pistols...


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The nerve of this guy! Just who does he think he is killin' a Grizzly with a .30 Luger?

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Originally Posted by chlinstructor

Agreed! Also makes a lot of good common sense, as all of your posts do, Doc.


Well, thanks, although it seems to me that most of what I post is not all that commonly sensible... kindasorta like my work in the ER, where I routinely ask my patients, "How the F**K did you DO that to yourself?" ... and they don't have a reasonable answer...

I think bein' up against the average level of dumbphuckitude that passes for thinking in America these days tends to hone a man's perceptions of what is or is not "good common sense"... unfortunately, I am up against less than average level of dumbphuckitude on a daily ER basis...


Originally Posted by chlinstructor
If I'm backpacking or bowhunting in an area where black bears could pose a problem, I want the best tool possible regardless of size or weight. Preferably a 12ga with heavy slugs!


But where weight & size are a big carry concern, my 10mm Glock or Smith & Wesson Mountain Revolver are going to seem awfully light & small, should I have an encounter with a pissed off black bear!


Last time I had the option of shooting a couple 12-ga slugs between a large, predatory black bear's feet versus putting them in his brainpan, I was fervently wishing I had the 16-inch guns of the New Jersey behind me, and even then I'd of been skeered...

I'm just sayin'...


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LOL. I bet you see a lot of future Darwin Award winners in the ER.


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Just for your own piece of mind, I've eliminated bears with the S&W mountain gun using 240grain HPs (xtp) and garrett cartridges ammo and all that falls between.

It's never failed to decide matters and works at a level that greatly exceeds anything smaller. You should rest easy with that choice, only issue then is skill when nervous.

The resolution I have using this particular revolver and various ammo will likely exceed your imagination. It was my job for over a decade to remove bears from the lands of the biggest tree farm corporation in the PNW.

The little S&W mtn gun was a match made in heaven for me and my work.


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Originally Posted by Magnumdood
Originally Posted by Steelringer
".40cal MAY work for 2 legged critters..."

That's funny right there. Try WILL instead.

There are no guarantees that any handgun round will work on 2-legged varmints.

The only way to insure a man stops in his tracks is a central nervous system (brain and/or spine) solid hit.


Shot placement is critical regardless of the number of legs or the stamp on the side of the slide/barrel. Good hits are the biggest deciding factor. If a shooter can not hit the side of a barn with a .44M/.45C/.460/.454/.500 but CAN with their .40 Glock, then more power to them. We all have to be prepared for the need of additional shots, even with rifles.

I have found shot animals to be much less predictable than shot people. Apples and oranges IMO.

And, Jeez, what's with the need for pistol follow-ups on so many archery animals? Does anyone carry a quiver besides me?

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Originally Posted by Steelringer

And, Jeez, what's with the need for pistol follow-ups on so many archery animals? Does anyone carry a quiver besides me?


grin


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Must be different habitat where you are, wounded bears are usually in the thickest tangle of brush they can find, arrows don't shoot through anything and you would not even be able to draw a bow in nearly any situation I know of, further more you cannot see sights, or peep in darkness......... right? How does one make a finishing shot in the dark with a bow, in thick brushy habitat?

I'm not intending to be condescending here, however it seems like there are a whole lot of people that provide commentary on this topic with very few that have the real world experience to provide help. Basing your opinions on what you have done once or twice, or what Uncle frank told you, or your sister's boyfriends dads work buddy is not the kind of information that has any value to the topic. Lets get real on this stuff.

If it's all in fun, many people straight up say " well I've never done this but here is what I think" However there are a whole lot of folks that seem to think since they have shot newsprint, and deer, or a few pigs or even an elk or six. This somehow makes them qualified to comment on what it's like to shoot a bear at close range in the dark on a follow up. Or in close range self defense.

This thread would have a much better level of education and credibility if it were limited to those who have killed 25-50 or even 100 bears with a handgun. Those guys have been there, done it and get the big picture of the situation.

It's just getting silly to actually read (some) of these posts now. Everyone is an expert, but what is the background that justifies the the claims of factual opinion? Carry on folks it's become a cartoon now not an educational thread with knowledge, experience, and facts


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Too many folks confuse exposure with experience.

Last edited by 41magfan; 09/20/12.

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That being said, the OP sounds like he is pretty firm on sticking with his Glock .40 for backpack Bowhunts.

LOL!!!
Who said I was archery hunting? I'm not! Never said I was, I'm on a rifle hunt.

So much presumption delved out here from so little experience.

I'm asking for a load to put into a bears brain from feet not yards.

It's kinda hard to maneuver a rifle inside a small backpack tent. I was asking for a load to put through a bears noggin from a tent, maybe inside a tent.
I think I've been clear on that. But somehow the experts here have me bow hunting and sticking bear with arrows and following up with pistol shots from a handgun.

I asked fast or slow to see the interesting responses I would get. I wasn't let down! smile

And Doc, with all due respect and I really do have respect for you. I don't need your endorsement to do what I now is best for me. smile


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It's just getting silly to actually read (some) of these posts now. Everyone is an expert, but what is the background that justifies the the claims of factual opinion? Carry on folks it's become a cartoon now not an educational thread with knowledge, experience, and facts


Thank you JJ.

I don't want to discourage anyone from posting as I have pretty much learned something from each post.

It has kinda of gotten out of hand with presumption here.

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