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Okay, always wanted a 444 Marlin probably because I like the looks (curved pistol grip) that is similar to the Marlin 336 design which is just gorgeous. But how does 444 performance on bigger game compare to 45-70?

444 Marlin shells seem awful spendy, which can be cut into with handloads, but is it a round-rifle combo worth getting into?


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enough said right here to make you want two of them:

http://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17

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There is no North American game animal that could tell the difference in the two if hit in the boiler room. Buy one and give it a spin. They are a lot of fun, but do seem to have a sharper kick than the big shove of the 45-70.


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What do you mean by "bigger game?"

I've got both. Years ago I was looking for a 444 when I found a .45-70 and bought that. Last year I finally got a 444, but haven't taken any game with it yet. My .45-70 has a straight grip and hard plastic cresent but plate, and the 444 has a pistol grip and recoil pad.

The difference in recoil between the two is significant. By that I mean I can shoot the 444 better, and good enough for a higher number of rounds. There isn't much difference in the cost of reloading. Of the two I like my 444 better.


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Originally Posted by Youper
What do you mean by "bigger game?"


Anything bigger than not-big. Large bears, moose. Things that need a stopper as a backup.


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Where does the 450 Marlin fit in with these calibers? Thanks

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I have had both. The 45-70 I shot with 300 grain hps. They acted like a blitzking. I then shot some 420's, they hurt.

I got a 444 a few years later, and I like it a lot better.

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Just look at the ballistics. The 444 is a semi-obsolete cartridge that has no advantage of any kind over the 45-70. The 45-70 has 1000s of load and bullet choices, is very accurate and will take any game in North America (and with proper loads in a strong rifle .... anything, anywhere.)

A 44 Magnum Rifle has essentially the same performance as a 444 and, like the 45-70 has 1000s of load options.

Buy a 307 and 356 Winchester, then, with your 444, you'ld have a real "collection" !

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44mag same performance as the 444?

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I have a 44 and a 444. Not quite the same,oh they use the same bullets. However that's where the similarities end. Think 3030 to 06.

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Originally Posted by cutNshoot
44mag same performance as the 444?


crazy Not even close - 444 significantly more powerful.

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Originally Posted by buddy
Where does the 450 Marlin fit in with these calibers? Thanks


The 450 M. is essentially the same cartridge as the 45-70 but loaded to much higher pressure, which gets more velocity.
The case is designed so it will not chamber in a 45-70 to avoid damage to older low pressure firearm actions.
You can load the 45-70 to the same higher pressures in more modern guns that will handle the pressure safely, but have to be careful not to load the high pressure rounds/handloads in an older gun that will not survive the pressure.

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Are the 44 Mag bullets tough enough for the 444 Marlin velocities? I use a lot of Alaska Backpacker hard-cast solid lead ammo and carry these in my 44 Mag when hiking. Would that be a better handloaded bullet?


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Well hell yeah. Use 265 grainers, or stick with the hard cast.

Go to marlin owners. Lots of info there.

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No they don't use the same bullets. Marlin had a lot of trouble initially with folks using jacketed pistol bullets in the 444. 300 or 350 gr hardcasts are the way to go (if you can get them to shoot)

Best you can do with a 444 300 gr (and the twist is wrong) is almost 2100 fps
A 45-70 can 2500 or more and is not bordering on being obsolete.

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Factory loads maybe. But I stuff mine with the 240 XTP's, they come from the same box.

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I don't think you can go wrong either way if you are wanting a big bore levergun.

The newer 444s with the Ballard rifling are 1/20 twist. They will handle anything up to the 400 gr stuff from Beartooth.

I've had a couple Marlin 45-70s along the way, and still have one. Never had a 444 but it has a lot of appeal to me since I load/shoot 44Mag revolver. Never had one though. But a 444 could be loaded up with a lot of stuff from 180gr JHP up to 400+ gr cast. That's a lot of latitude.

The 45-70 can go 300-500+ gr, and that's a lot of options too.


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One nice thing about the 444 is that it has more steel around the chamber.

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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
One nice thing about the 444 is that it has more steel around the chamber.

+1

I have several .45-70's, no .444's. So, that says which I prefer.

MM, on the other hand, makes an excellent point. Here is a photo of the right side of a .45-70 receiver, blown away by a high pressure load. With the large, .45-70 round, this is the Achilles Heel of the Marlin action, the area forward of the ejection port. I don't think .444's are as likely to do this.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
One nice thing about the 444 is that it has more steel around the chamber.

+1

I have several .45-70's, no .444's. So, that says which I prefer.

MM, on the other hand, makes an excellent point. Here is a photo of the right side of a .45-70 receiver, blown away by a high pressure load. With the large, .45-70 round, this is the Achilles Heel of the Marlin action, the area forward of the ejection port. I don't think .444's are as likely to do this.

DF


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Do you have the data on the load that did this?

Last edited by 17ACKLEYBEE; 10/15/12.

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