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#6805849 - 08/24/12 Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle.
Huntz Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 6039
Loc: N.E.Wisconsin
I have never done it believing it was dangerous,but am starting to wonder if this is BS.Now I could see not using a protected tipped bullet in a tubed magazine ,but really have to wonder about using a lead tipped bullet.Speers sure have a small flat compared to other bullets meant for lever actions.What brings this up is several threads I have read in lever action forums claiming it does not matter.What say you??????
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#6807292 - 08/25/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Huntz]
AH64guy Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 2190
Loc: North VA
I doubt it is much of an issue, but I'd hate to be "that guy" that it happened to. It's not worth finding out for me, the blunts still kill anything that I can hit at a reasonable range.

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#6807302 - 08/25/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Huntz]
pal Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 4287
Loc: so cal
There's a really good reason why sane riflemen don't do this .
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#6807379 - 08/25/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Huntz]
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 5762
Loc: Central Idaho
There is a reason why one should not use pointed bullets in a tube magazines..It is called magazine detonation and if you google it you will find out there have been more than one documented.

The ones I know of were from flat point hard cast bullets and a couple from a major 45-70 ammo maker(Not Garrett's) whom subsequently went to anti-slamfire primers(Military).

What's to be gained in a 45-70 by using led pointed bullets?First,the lead tips would be mangled through the cycle action and then there is the OAL issue the longer lead tipped bullets for the .458 Win Mag would bring for the levergun to cycle.

There is nothing but problems to be gained using led tipped bullets in the 45-70 and just maybe the loss of a limb or two.Not worth it.



Jayco

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#6807547 - 08/25/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: logcutter]
Just a Hunter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 2932
Loc: MT
I believe it is a Mike Venterino book where he points out the Marlin 1881 in 45-70 failed in military testing due to detonations in the tube. I believe they were using round nose bullets.

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#6810157 - 08/26/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Just a Hunter]
kraky111 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 3781
How many shots do you need? You can easily use pointed bullets by trimming the cases back about .075" and then seating the pointed bullets deep enough to cycle...have one in chamber and only one in tube...if you dont hit your target in two shots maybe it should go free?


Edited by kraky111 (08/26/12)

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#6810204 - 08/26/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: kraky111]
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 5762
Loc: Central Idaho
What pointed bullet for the .458 Win Mag are you going to use?Bullets made for the .458 Win Mag do not expand at 45-70 velocities reliably or at all.Even the 350 Speer FP is made for the .458 WM and Speer says not to use it in a 45-70 although Buffalo Bore does but at Max+ velocity.

The only pointed bullet made for the 45-70 is the Hornady Leverevolution,even the 400 grain Swift A-Frame is not made for the 45-70 but the new 350 grain FP is.

What use is a pointed bullet in a 45-70 levergun?If you want it for longer range,it will not expand since it is made for .458WM velocities.

Just not understanding the need for pointed bullets in the 45-70 at 45-70 velocities.

Jayco

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#6810220 - 08/26/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: logcutter]
Huntz Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 6039
Loc: N.E.Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: logcutter
What pointed bullet for the .458 Win Mag are you going to use?Bullets made for the .458 Win Mag do not expand at 45-70 velocities reliably or at all.Even the 350 Speer FP is made for the .458 WM and Speer says not to use it in a 45-70 although Buffalo Bore does but at Max+ velocity.

The only pointed bullet made for the 45-70 is the Hornady Leverevolution,even the 400 grain Swift A-Frame is not made for the 45-70 but the new 350 grain FP is.

What use is a pointed bullet in a 45-70 levergun?If you want it for longer range,it will not expand since it is made for .458WM velocities.

Just not understanding the need for pointed bullets in the 45-70 at 45-70 velocities.

Jayco


I do not own a 45/70.I have several 30/30`s,35 Rems,32 Specials.
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#6810268 - 08/26/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Huntz]
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 5762
Loc: Central Idaho
Sorry for the 45-70 rant....I have used all three of the leverguns you mentioned and I still don't see the need for pointed bullets other than ones made for leveractions.A 30-30 is a 30-30 and so on.

All three are very lethal and I can't see how a pointed bullet is going to make much of a difference at all within there pressure range not to mention the effects of recoil on the pointed tips in a tubular magazine.

Good luck in your hunting.

Jayco

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#6811390 - 08/26/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: logcutter]
boomtube Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1491
"Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. "

What would be the point?

Okay, that's another "novel" idea that gets floated around from time to time. I won't do it but I'll await your report on how well it works out for you.

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#6814594 - 08/27/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: boomtube]
Plinker Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 8549
You can load one in the chamber and one in the tube if you are worried about using pointed bullets.

Quote:
I believe it is a Mike Venterino book where he points out the Marlin 1881 in 45-70 failed in military testing due to detonations in the tube. I believe they were using round nose bullets.


Remington 30-30 ammo is round nose. Never had one detonate a round in front of it in any of my guns.

Somewhere in my pile of gun books, I have one article where tubular magazine guns were put through a drop test. Pointed soft point ammo was used to see if it was really a problem. When dropped from a warehouse roof, one instance caused one round to fire off the primer in the round in front of it. The case simply burst in the tube and no other rounds in the mag detonated.

I don't think two instances indicates a trend.

Tubular magazine accidental discharge

Has there ever been a pointed bullet/magazine tube cartridge detonation ?

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#6814726 - 08/28/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Plinker]
Huntz Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 6039
Loc: N.E.Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Plinker
You can load one in the chamber and one in the tube if you are worried about using pointed bullets.

Quote:
I believe it is a Mike Venterino book where he points out the Marlin 1881 in 45-70 failed in military testing due to detonations in the tube. I believe they were using round nose bullets.


Remington 30-30 ammo is round nose. Never had one detonate a round in front of it in any of my guns.

Somewhere in my pile of gun books, I have one article where tubular magazine guns were put through a drop test. Pointed soft point ammo was used to see if it was really a problem. When dropped from a warehouse roof, one instance caused one round to fire off the primer in the round in front of it. The case simply burst in the tube and no other rounds in the mag detonated.

I don't think two instances indicates a trend.

Tubular magazine accidental discharge

Has there ever been a pointed bullet/magazine tube cartridge detonation ?



Thanks for the links.
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The older I get,the better I wuz!!!!

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#6826899 - 08/31/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Huntz]
Secret_Squirrel Offline
Member

Registered: 08/31/12
Posts: 83
Loc: Franklin, TN
I just found some 35 Rem for my 336 from Remington. They are pointed. I will have one in the camber and 1 in the magazine. Hopefully I can find some rounded bullets later on, but for right now I will not load more rounds in my gun. Better to go on the side of caution.
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#6826931 - 08/31/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Huntz]
AFTERUM Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 4439
Loc: CENTRAL FLORIDA
I load those hornady flex tip bullets with the red soft plastic tip (same ones they use in the leverrevolution ammo) in my winchester 30/30. They are very accurate and are no danger in the tubular magazine. Their performance on a doe I shot last year has made me consider using them in some of my bolt action "06's or maybe a 300 mag.

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#6845801 - 09/06/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: boomtube]
Sherwood Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 524
Loc: Lancasster County, Pennsylvani...
I load one in the chamber and one in the magazine for a two shot rifle. Never has handicapped me and is perfectly safe.

This Sierra bullet turns my 30-30 into a 225 yard deer rifle!

Sherwood

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#6951181 - 10/09/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Sherwood]
Micro_Groove Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 755
Loc: NC
I have heard of a few folks rebarreling a 336 into 250 Savage and running one in the pipe and one in the mag.

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#7058866 - 11/09/12 Re: Using pointed lead tipped bullets in a tube fed Lever action Rifle. [Re: Micro_Groove]
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 27410
Loc: All over the place! missing Af...
Several articels and tests done recently in RIFLE,HANDLOADER and AMERICAN RIFLEMAN magazines debunked the idea that pointed bullets were unsafe in tube magazines. As was pointed out above, IF one could get a round to detonate, the lack of confinement in the wide, thin magazine tube caused minimal damage to the rifle and none to the shooter. I am going to run then in my soon to be finished 30/30AI model 94. In a rifle and cartridge that fast, and with the peep and globe sights I will be running, the high BC bullets will make a real difference. Specifically 130gr Barnes TTSX's in this case.
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