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#7034752 - 11/03/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Ken Howell]
jwall Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5277
Loc: Southern Arkansas
Dr. Howell -

Thanks for your input & position.

I feel those were D I S G U S T I N G practices and so UNETHICAL.
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3100 guy.

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#7035491 - 11/03/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: jwall]
JRS3 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 416
Loc: Florida
I bought an Encore MZL a year or so after they first came out. It has been a solid performer and I have been very pleased with it to date.

I picked up a 22-250 and 444 barrel for it and have used them both for hunting. Both barrels shoot well but after a couple of seasons, the novelty wore off so the encore stays as a MZL. I am happy with this but the concept did work as advertised. I doubt I will buy another barrel for it but it scratched the itchy phase for me.


With the all of the above stated, it surprises me that I have never seen another person hunting with an Encore in a rifle configuration. Two friends bought them with as MZL's and still shoot them but beyond that, I have not seen another outside of a gun store. I hunt with a lot of different people in many places so it really does surprise me that I have not run across one elsewhere with all of the endorsements that we see for them. I see numerous #1's, H&Rs, CVAs, and even a couple of European single shots in hunting camps but no TCs. Maybe they are more popular in other areas but they are very reclusive in the south.

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#7042262 - 11/05/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: shaman]
WyoJoe Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/14/05
Posts: 2821
Loc: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Originally Posted By: shaman
To answer the original question, I have had a bee in my bonnet for quite some time over the over-exposure of the TC Encore on TV. For one thing, it ain't particularly my taste in rifle. For another, it encourages this whole "one-shot-one-kill" idea in the extreme.


I am going to have to disagree with you a bit here. I think having a single shot forces a hunter to pick his shots more and be more cautious.

I hunt with an Encore pistol in .30/06 as my primary hunting weapon. I have to slow down & pick my shots. More people do that and there would be more one shot kills. Too many people (notice I did not say all) simply pray & spray.
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#7054911 - 11/08/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Ken Howell]
moosemike Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 2917
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Ken Howell
Originally Posted By: shaman
To answer the original question, I have had a bee in my bonnet for quite some time over the over-exposure of the TC Encore on TV. For one thing, it ain't particularly my taste in rifle. For another, it encourages this whole "one-shot-one-kill" idea in the extreme.

Now, mind you, I'm all for putting them down with one shot. Having said that, I always try to be ready for a second, or even a third shot if the situation arises. You would think that 1-s-1-k would be a humane way to go, but in reality it makes a lot of folks expect the animal to go down. They are not ready for the contingencies and the animal ends up suffering.

My feeling is that a lot of goobers see guys on TV shoot with a single-shot rifle and go out expecting the animal to die with only one shot, no matter what the reality is.

The most extreme example I can give of this is a response that I got a couple of years ago to a question regarding follow-up shots. Some fellow on a Kentucky hunting forum said that if he shot and the deer did not go down immediately, he would just figure it was time to give up hunting. I guess that's one way to get out of following a blood trail.

Right on!

Couple or three decades ago, a former friend gushingly volunteered that hunting with a single-shot was "more sporting" than hunting with a repeater. I'd heard that silly rationale before, and though I love single-shots as much as he does, I told him not to try to sell me that garbage.

"Nobody owes it to an animal to kill it — unless you've pushed a bullet or an arrow into it and it doesn't die right away. Then you owe it to that animal to kill it as quickly as possible."

For years, I idolized a famous big-game hunter whom we don't hear anything about these days (appropriately). Had and cherished several of his books. Then I went (1955, 1956) to one of his lectures where he showed and narrated movies of his hunts. All was good — better than good — until he came to his leopard hunt.

He'd tethered a goat to a tree as bait for a leopard. He waited in a blind, Weatherby ready. A leopard came slinking to the tethered goat, which was making the expected motions and sounds of abject terror. Then the Mighty Hunter boasted of his cleverness.

He intentionally gut-shot the leopard to see what it'd do. As a south Alabama fox-hunter so eloquently put it later, "quicker'n seven gods can skin a minute," the leopard savaged the goat. The Mighty Hunter thought that that was funny. Let it go on for a while. Let the leopard kill the goat before he shot the leopard dead.

I didn't think that that was either clever or funny. I still don't. Threw his books away and never bought another — certainly not one of the signed copies that he was peddling at the lecture hall.




I take it you aren't willing to say who the big game hunter in question was? I'm just wondering because I have Wally Taber books and he was a Weatherby guy and an African hunter in the 50's and a big hunter/lecturer. Is he the guy?
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#7056016 - 11/08/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: jt402]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 73730
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
If I had to gun hunt with an Encore I'd take up bow hunting.
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#7056019 - 11/08/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Steelhead]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 73730
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
As someone once told me, if you are going to carry more than one cartridge in the field with you they might as well be in a magazine.

Makes sense to me.
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#7056035 - 11/08/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Steelhead]
toltecgriz Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 17563
There's a reason God gave us repeaters. smile
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#7057020 - 11/09/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: moosemike]
Ken Howell Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 29348
Originally Posted By: moosemike
Originally Posted By: Ken Howell
For years, I idolized a famous big-game hunter whom we don't hear anything about these days (appropriately). Had and cherished several of his books. Then I went (1955, 1956) to one of his lectures where he showed and narrated movies of his hunts. All was good — better than good — until he came to his leopard hunt.

He'd tethered a goat to a tree as bait for a leopard. He waited in a blind, Weatherby ready. A leopard came slinking to the tethered goat, which was making the expected motions and sounds of abject terror. Then the Mighty Hunter boasted of his cleverness.

He intentionally gut-shot the leopard to see what it'd do. As a south Alabama fox-hunter so eloquently put it later, "quicker'n seven gods can skin a minute," the leopard savaged the goat. The Mighty Hunter thought that that was funny. Let it go on for a while. Let the leopard kill the goat before he shot the leopard dead.

I didn't think that that was either clever or funny. I still don't. Threw his books away and never bought another — certainly not one of the signed copies that he was peddling at the lecture hall.

I take it you aren't willing to say who the big game hunter in question was? I'm just wondering because I have Wally Taber books and he was a Weatherby guy and an African hunter in the 50's and a big hunter/lecturer. Is he the guy?

• You take it right. If I were gonna say, I'd've said.
• No, it wasn't Wally Taber.
• I knew Wally and could but won't tell you a thing or two (far less despicable) that you wouldn't like.
Enjoy his books.
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"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.




















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#7057170 - 11/09/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Ken Howell]
jwall Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5277
Loc: Southern Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Ken Howell


&#149; You take it right. If I were gonna say, I'd've said.
&#149; No, it wasn't Wally Taber.


&#149; I knew Wally and could but won't tell you a thing or two (far less despicable) that you wouldn't like.
Enjoy his books.



Sir Ken:

Truly you are a CLASS act.

Salute!!
_________________________
jwall
3100 guy.

There is no aftermarket FIX for operator error. jw


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#7057869 - 11/09/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: jwall]
Ken Howell Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 29348
Originally Posted By: jwall
… Sir Ken:

Truly you are a CLASS act.

Salute!!

Thanks, but I haven't been knighted.

Consider benighted.
_________________________
"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.




















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#7063770 - 11/11/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Ken Howell]
Mar336 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 333
Quote:
for those who don't like to see them on the shows TC is paying for I have a real simple solution: give up sitting on the couch watching animal snuff-flic informercials and go out and do something real with your time.


+1...If a guy's watching so much TV they got their panties in a wad over who's paying for it they're spending way too much time on the couch. Besides TV only exists to sell advertising. No advertising, no hunting show.

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#7063958 - 11/11/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Mar336]
Ken Howell Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 29348
The *&^%$#@! deterioration in my physical condition condemns me to my recliner and solo hours of TV and computer, yet I'm not so far gone that I have no alternative but to watch hunting shows. If there's nothing on that I want to watch, there's a very convenient OFF button on my remote.

Watching any sport, on-scene or on live or recorded TV, is about as alluring as watching somebody else copulating — eons more fun to do than to watch.

Just sitting (which is my only physical option) and remembering, thinking, or napping is infinitely more enjoyable and rewarding than watching somebody else perpetrating an ersatz "hunt."

Just MHO —
_________________________
"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.




















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#7064020 - 11/11/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Ken Howell]
oldtrapper Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 7623
Loc: South Black Hills
I alway admire a guy who is not bored in his own head. Course, if ya get too bored, your brain falls out.
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Soli Deo Gloria


The Hi-line boys in Stanford MT for R&R. Our friend Charlie gets the pic.


Du kannst kein Eis aus Pferd Scheiße machen.

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#7071253 - 11/13/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Ken Howell]
gmoats Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 1178
Loc: Wyoming
Originally Posted By: Ken Howell
....as alluring as watching somebody else copulating — eons more fun to do than to watch.
...
...napping is infinitely more enjoyable and rewarding than watching somebody else perpetrating an ersatz "hunt."...

....your ability to turn a phrase and masterful wordsmithing are as sharp as ever.....they're gems to us out here in cyber space, Ken!!
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The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.

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#7071591 - 11/13/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Steelhead]
rost495 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 38871
Loc: La Grange, TX
Originally Posted By: Steelhead
As someone once told me, if you are going to carry more than one cartridge in the field with you they might as well be in a magazine.

Makes sense to me.


I often carry an AR in the field. On deer I have yet to fire more than one round( pigs are another story but there are always multiple targets there)
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#7075396 - 11/14/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: WyoJoe]
shaman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 4629
Loc: Neave, KY
Originally Posted By: WyoJoe

I am going to have to disagree with you a bit here. I think having a single shot forces a hunter to pick his shots more and be more cautious.

I hunt with an Encore pistol in .30/06 as my primary hunting weapon. I have to slow down & pick my shots. More people do that and there would be more one shot kills. Too many people (notice I did not say all) simply pray & spray.



Actually it forces YOU to be more careful. Having a single shot does necessarily force folks who are clueless or inexperienced to be careful.

My opinion is that having a quick second shot ready is essential for ethical hunting. Most times I hunt the deer is down before I can rack another in, but I still go through the drill and reload, reacquire, and make the determination whether to shoot again with the crosshairs on the animal.

Now, that's me, my prejudice, my opinion. It comes from a couple of things. First and foremost was the advice my old-fart hunting buddies gave me when I started hunting deer. I can still remember old John ( he'd been in the Bulge) telling me, "You shoot, and you keep shooting until your sure he'd dead." I remember how the Marlboro started twitching in his hand. John obviously had issues on the subject, but I took him at his word. From there, it morphed into a general desire to put the animal down and keep it down. If one didn't do it, I was perfectly happy to put in another.

JJHack was another influence. I first ran into him on the old AllOutdoors.com. JJHack talks about Golfer's Syndrome: a PH term for a guy who shoots once and then puts down his rifle and watches, expecting the game to go down. That's the sort of thing I don't want telegraphed to the unknowing masses, and that is the sort of thing a single-shot rifle can encourage in inexperienced hands.

Your hands? Joe, with the hardware you described and the way you write about using it, you are the least of my worries.


Ken, as always, I truly appreciate your appreciation.



Edited by shaman (11/14/12)
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#7077914 - 11/15/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: shaman]
xphunter Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1021
Loc: Wyoming
I hunt with a single-shot specialty handgun the majority of the time.
First, I don't think it inspires a 1-shot-one-kill attitude to an extreme to where one just expects the animal to go down.
Everyone should reload their weapon whatever the type ASAP just in case something goes wrong. They are a whole lot faster to reload than a Black Powder rig and possible a second shot with a bow.
Second, I very rarely need another shot.
Third, when I do, I can get off my second shot fairly quick.
I would rather hunt with an experienced person using a single-shot, than some inexperienced hunter who is relying on multiple shots (regardless of the action) or magnum cartridge.
You cannot buy competence.
Let me get prone or even from a good sitting position with one of my specialty handguns and I do not feel disadvantaged to the majority of rifle hunters out there on first shot connections to distances that many rifle hunters are not comfortable with.
I have met Larry and he was a nice gentleman to speak with.
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#7079803 - 11/16/12 Re: Just read the entire thread about Larry Weishun and have a question... [Re: Ken Howell]
jwall Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5277
Loc: Southern Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Ken Howell


The *&^%$#@! deterioration in my physical condition condemns me to my recliner and solo hours of TV and computer,.....
&#151;


Sir Ken smile

I'm not sucking up...just expressing my respect.

It hurts me deeply to hear of your LIMITATIONS. Someone once told me, " if you live long enough...bad things happen to you."

I'm VERY GLAD you're still with us but saddened with & for you. I remember well reading and following you in print when I was just getting started handloading.

Not for sure, but I remember your entries in 1 or more gun mags. Either Petersen's Hunting or Shooting Times. Yep I've known of you for a long time and I feel privileged to be able to correspond w/you.

Jerry
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jwall
3100 guy.

There is no aftermarket FIX for operator error. jw


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