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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm a 6.5 fan too but to say a 6mm is a joke in the wind is just silly.....to each his own though.
I'd be a happy camper with most any of the options discussed in this thread and can't say any mentioned would be a "joke".
Last edited by Kaleb; 11/16/12. Reason: Can't spell well
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Campfire Outfitter
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Have you actually shot the 105 AM or 115 VLD at long range in the wind? And I agree that you could hunt anything in the lower 48 with your 6.5x55- it's an excellent chambering, but I could also hunt anything in the lower 48 with a .243 loaded properly. BTW, we're talking about a dedicated speed goat rifle here, the smallest "big game" you can find in the lower 48... Just for kicks: Chart created using the JBM engine. Assuming the '06 case for both, 140 6.5 at 3000fps and the 105 6mm at 3350. Yes, there are two lines there.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What gun are you shooting to get a 105gr 6mm bullet to 3350? My 243 will only shoot the 95's @ 2980fps.
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He said o6 cases for both. Guess he's going on the 6-06 that was discussed.
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Campfire Outfitter
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My 243 only does 27'ish with 105's....but shoots them well. Been burning I-4350.....should try another powder but have too much other crap to play with it seems?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Skip the AI, fireforming is for the birds... I look at it differently. A 6- or 6.5-06 is already a wildcat requiring an extra step in sizing the brass, and any fireforming I do is with new brass. I don't use new brass for anything requiring accuracy (long range hunting), I use brass formed to my chamber whether it's Ackleyed or not so fireforming is not an extra step for me. And I like the extra 100 fps along with no trimming, so it's all good in my book.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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I have never noticed a difference in accuracy between virgin brass and fired, so it is a moot point.
That being said, to make a 6.5-06 case, all you do is run 25'06 brass through a 6.5-06 die. Takes all of 5 seconds...
Fireforming does nothing but waste good components and add wear to a barrel.
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Campfire Regular
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I disagree,the range time I get when fireforming is more than worth the cost of a few components to me.Also the idea that fireforming for a big game rifle(as opposed to a prairie dog rifle!)would wear a barrel over my lifetime makes no sense to me.I load for 3 Ackley chamberings and have experienced no appreciable barrel wear,even in my 22-250AI which I shoot quite a bit.Don't get me wrong,I'm not being critical but I know what works for me.Doesn't mean it works for other folks tho' Cheers,Gunner
Support the BC Wildlife Federation
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My 243 only does 27'ish with 105's....but shoots them well. Been burning I-4350.....should try another powder but have too much other crap to play with it seems? My .243 with 26" barrel was getting an easy 3000fps with I4350, and it gets 3145fps after going AI with the same powder. With a slower powder a guy can get 3250fps with a 100gr bullet in the .243AI, and 3350fps is do-able with the 6-06 based on the reports I've read from guys using that combination. Running .25-06 brass through a die to form 6.5-06 is easy enough, but you're still FF the case. No different than running the same brass in an AI chamber and blowing out the shoulder at the same time. My FF load in my .243AI agg's well under MOA, and is usable for coyotes, gophers, targets, etc, with an 87gr VM at 2900fps.
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I ran the 105's at 3030fps out of a 24" barrel with Retumbo, it shot okay but never stellar.
That would surely do the trick on most goats, but another 300fps would kick butt as well.
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OP
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Yes the action is already decided.
Yes, this is purely a speed goat gun. I have a 375 Ruger being built, and a 300 Wby for elk already. I have a 30-06 I'm going to tinker with (maybe 280 or 25-06) into a VERY trim package for mule deer. I have an ultralight 308 being built for tahr/sheep/goats. So this is single purpose gun (ok dual purpose if you count coyotes)
I think its coming down to the 240 Wby and the 25-06. Goats don't need much knock down power. An 80-110gr bullet from either a 6mm or 257 will do the job just dandy out to the 400 or so yard mark. Yes BC and wind drift comes into play a bit, but you so does time-of-flight. Less time in the air, less time for wind to do its dirty work. Plus its just not that incredibly windy in Eastern CO, not like Wyoming. I like the 240 for the fact that if I DO need to buy factory ammo, I can. Can't say that about a 6/06 or 6.5-06. Nothing against them, I looked long and hard....but the factory option trumps minor gains in speed or loading ease/case life/case cost.
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Oh and I also like the 25-06 for the fact that if I DO need to buy factory ammo I CAN, and its cheaper lol
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Either the 6/06 (240 Wby, or the 25/06 will do all you need done. I'm a big time fan of the 6 aught and the 25 aughgt. If factory ammo was a factor then I'd go 25 aught. Or if elky's were a player from time to time then I'd lean to the 25 aught.
The big 6's will do a fantastic job for you. I'm finishing up my 2nd 6/06 barrel (meaning it's pretty well toast) as well I've 3 buds who use the 6/06 as well. By and large we've used the 70 NBT, or the 95 NBT for most all our work. I've also used the 85 and 95 TSX's a bit as well.
We've taken somewhere in the range of 50-60 head of lopes, deer and black bears with the 70 NBT and to my knowledge we've yet to have one stay inside a critter.
Nothing at wrong with the VLD's type of slugs but we've had super good experiences with a plain jane 70-95 grain NBT.
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And there's nothing wrong with a 30-06 shooting 180's...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Ranger
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Cepting after 301 yds..... Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have never noticed a difference in accuracy between virgin brass and fired, so it is a moot point. Well, to each his own, I've noticed a difference, especially with brass that comes in bags and is dinged up. If there was no difference, then all of your match shooters would be using as much virgin brass as fired. And we are talking some fairly long shots here so accuracy matters.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This is a total side note but, I find this topic about "speed goat rigs" to slide right in their with what do I carry for bear protection....grin
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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True, it's easy to get sidetracked. Probably no cartridge mentioned wouldn't be close to as good as it gets.
This coming from a guy who had a perfectly good 25-06 rebarreled to 6.5-06. It's fun to mess around with different rifles/cartridges though, just to see what they'll do.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Regular
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I'd go 6-06 or 25-06. My last (and only) rifle built with goats in mind was a 25-06AI of the Faux-Ti flavor with a PN Mt Rifle contour at 23". I ran the 100gr NBT's in it and it was wicked on a couple goats. My wife shot one prone at 416yds and he simply crumpled. I shot one at 460yds sitting with shooting sticks and he too crumpled at the shot. I shot a couple whitetail bucks last fall with that rifle as well and it did what one would expect. I also learned that in all reality the 25-06AI w/100's really didn't do anything (for me) that my 243/243AI's couldn't do with 105's. So I sold the rifle and still am running my 243/243AI's. I guess if I was doing it over, and on a LA, I would go 6-06 to take advantage of the high BC 6mm bullets. Good luck!!!
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Campfire Tracker
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.25-06 Rem 700 CDL, 6x Leupold, 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet loaded to 3120 fps. Works great on mule deer & coyotes too. My first time pronghorn hunting, and I think the deer rifle did just fine.
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