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Originally Posted by gunner500
Yessir, my anchor point is the rear most knuckle on my right thumb firmly planted in the ear hole to the rear, I was leaning/canting my head to far to the right in an attempt to get behind the arrow more to try and sight at 18 yards.

Which is at extended range for me right now with a traditional bow. blush

Gunner


And therein lies a major problem that will cause issues in your shooting until the day it changes. The sinking anchor... It is the root of all evils when you shoot fingers. Any anchor that comes past full draw, and then settles into it, ruins the "push/pull" dynamics that need to be fundamental for a finger shooter. It transitions a lot to trad-bows from compound habits.

Try middle finger to the corner of the mouth, and then feel it until that elbow is in a line with the arrow. Then dump the string...

Yes, it will lose you an inch of draw length. BFD.


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Dan, I had to select a different anchor point as I was shooting to high lip hooking.

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shoot farther...

Or try 3 under with a ring finger in the corner of your mouth.



You can do whatever you want. I can't help but notice that 3 under shooters are usually 20 yard warriors, and guys with sinking anchors are usually good for a dozen arrows tops, and then have a meltdown


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Thanks for the tip, I just finished page 37 in Camera's book "Shooting the Stick Bow", I have lots of reading and shooting ahead of me, that forking book is over 400 pages. shocked

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Originally Posted by gunner500
Thanks for the tip, I just finished page 37 in Camera's book "Shooting the Stick Bow", I have lots of reading and shooting ahead of me, that forking book is over 400 pages. shocked

Gunner


That book aint bad and has some valuable info in it, especially on tuning. BUT, please realize that Tony(Viper)Camera has never bowhunted in his entire life and never won a single tourney in archery.

He once said on a public forum Fred Bear "basically sucked" at shooting a bow, even though Fred won 3 consecutive Michigan state NFAA field championships and amassed the largest trophy bow kill collection in history up to that point.

I'd suggest Asbells books.

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shocked saying FB sux is pure heresy, maybe camera needs to be hung by his smart ass sack for awhile.

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Originally Posted by Ghostinthemachine
Originally Posted by gunner500
Thanks for the tip, I just finished page 37 in Camera's book "Shooting the Stick Bow", I have lots of reading and shooting ahead of me, that forking book is over 400 pages. shocked

Gunner


That book aint bad and has some valuable info in it, especially on tuning. BUT, please realize that Tony(Viper)Camera has never bowhunted in his entire life and never won a single tourney in archery.

He once said on a public forum Fred Bear "basically sucked" at shooting a bow, even though Fred won 3 consecutive Michigan state NFAA field championships and amassed the largest trophy bow kill collection in history up to that point.

I'd suggest Asbells books.


I understand that Asbell kills stuff but every follower of his that I have ever shot with would miss the whole 3D deer more often than not.Maby they weren't squatting enough but I couldn't tell if they were going to shoot or take a [bleep].It could be that Asbell is really all that and his teaching just didn't translate well.

Maby my opinion is twisted as I have never met the man or seen him shoot.I don't have much respect though for his Black Widow teaching clinic where he only demonstrates how to shoot at a target a few feet away.He would gain my respect if he would show how it's done at 20 yards or more.

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Asbell has a room full of big game trophies.

Fred Bear has a museum full of big game trophies.

Camera has a big mouth, a book and a huge ego, little else.

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I think they all have good information as well as things that work better for them.There are certin things that will benefit everyone and certin things that folks have to adapt and change to better fit their style,skill level,or even physical limitations.

My main criticism of Asbell is his squat and turn technique.Everyone I've personally seen try to use it,contorted their body into a completly uncomfortable and unstable position to shoot.It clearly had a negative effect on their accuracy.As I said it may have been more of a translation problem than a problem with form.

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Originally Posted by DanAdair
shoot farther...

I can't help but notice that 3 under shooters are usually 20 yard warriors


TFF Dan! I'm a 3-under 20yd warrior.......well, 3-under 30yd warrior really. (grin)

[Linked Image]



[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
I think they all have good information as well as things that work better for them.There are certin things that will benefit everyone and certin things that folks have to adapt and change to better fit their style,skill level,or even physical limitations.

My main criticism of Asbell is his squat and turn technique.Everyone I've personally seen try to use it,contorted their body into a completly uncomfortable and unstable position to shoot.It clearly had a negative effect on their accuracy.As I said it may have been more of a translation problem than a problem with form.


Asbell never says you have to squat like him. I think 'squat' is a derogatory term meant to ridicule anyway. He simply advocates getting into an athletic position.

I'm not saying Asbell or Welch or Viper or Eichler or anyone else has all the answers. Nobody does.

What I am saying, is to look at the teachers history as part of your overall assessment of the info brought forth.

It's very clear to me that 'Viper' Camera has never shot anything but 20 yard NFAA rounds INDOORS, in Long Island NY. He shoots lightweight bows, and has stated that he holds at draw for 10 seconds, which is ridiculous for the hunting archer. He;s deliberately confused about POA, gap, and instinctive techniques, and is a rude blowhard with nothing to back up his claims a guru, except said ego.

I prefer to listen to people that are hunting archers, and have been there and done that.

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I use modified ASbell method and has been effective for hunting. And Fred is a heck of a nice guy too.

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Originally Posted by BradArnett
Originally Posted by DanAdair
shoot farther...

I can't help but notice that 3 under shooters are usually 20 yard warriors


TFF Dan! I'm a 3-under 20yd warrior.......well, 3-under 30yd warrior really. (grin)

[Linked Image]



Damn nice buck there BA, I only have a 60 lb doe at 9 yards to my traditional bow hunting credit, but I'll get there. wink

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Originally Posted by BradArnett
Originally Posted by DanAdair
shoot farther...

I can't help but notice that 3 under shooters are usually 20 yard warriors


TFF Dan! I'm a 3-under 20yd warrior.......well, 3-under 30yd warrior really. (grin)

[Linked Image]



Brad, that picture is evidence that you know how to shoot a longbow. 3 under works very well for a lot of guys, my point was never to the contrary. But it does seem to be most prevalent with guys that shoot very accurately at shorter yardages, and there's nothing wrong with that in a bowhunting environment.

I shoot as many 3D shoots as I can every year, and I do okay at it. A good 3D course will make even the best of them take shots that they NEVER would hunting. Yardages can be longer. I only ever got my ass kicked by one buy that shot 3 under. Come on up to Montucky the first weekend of May for the Fawn Creek traditional shoot, we'll drink a couple gallons of been and discuss all this smile

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The only two shoots I didn't get hardware was the TBM fun shoot in Lewistown and the Montana State shoot, where I placed 4th

I haven't punched a tag with a recurve, that had horns on it since 2006 frown


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Dan, I know you can shoot, I've seen your posts on the other site. My downfall to shooting 3-under is my yardages. I am comfortable inside 25yds on critters and only to 30 on targets. I pretty much never shoot farther than that. My buddies who shoot split all tend to practice at further distances than i do. I also believe that shooting far tightens up their form and improves their "short" game as well. My post was in jest, but in my limited circle what you said is true.


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Took my Montana Longbow to the Butcher this evening to pick-up a pair of deer, he's a Bowsmith too, my draw length with tab and index finger anchored in the corner of my mouth is exactly 31"s, draw weight at 31"s measures at 62 lbs.

Do any of you men think this is too much for a 66" bow, I want to shoot it a lot and dont want to damage it?

Thanks,
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Brad, I haven't shot a big game animal past 30 with a recurve ever in my life. The only time I'd take a shot on game farther is if the first arrow didn't go as planned and that was my only option. There's nothing wrong with a 3 under hold... I do agree about shooting at longer yardages, if you practice a lot at 50 (and I'll admit that I don't do it much anymore) shots at 25 are much easier.

Gunner, You aren't going to hurt that bow any. Fear not, if you keep up with the trad bow thing, some day you'll drop at least 1K on something fancy and custom. My Silvertip that's in the works will be an easy 1500 before I'm done.


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Thanks Dan, have since spoken to Dan out at Montana Bows and he mirrored your comments.

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Dan Toelke is the for real deal. If I ever went Longbow, it'd be one of his. I've shot piles of his bows, they're slick.

I'm just a recurve kind of guy, that's all there is to it.


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This is Pat's story.


I used the all yew Vixen longbow and a Grizzly broadhead to tag this young fellow..




[Linked Image]











My Bud has several long bows. In the thread below shows him with a piggie last week I think.

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