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#7094974 - 11/20/12 03:37 PM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: renegade50]
340mag Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 2201
I have no idea why the vast majority of hunters are so sure the only decent combination in a black powder rifle needs to be the best in high velocity and inline design,selecting muzzle loaders that are 50 caliber exclusive of the other options.
while theres some fine rifles available in that type Ive never regretted purchasing a 58 caliber hawken kit and building a rifle, and Ive also got a 58 caliber TC big bore, both are fully able to kill deer and elk very effectively out past 150 yards or so, with a good load, and both shoot round balls very accurately (2" off a bench rest at 100 yards) or 500 grain minis in fairly decent groups 3"-3.5"
check your local gun store and pawn shops for used hawken style rifles, the better brands like BROWNING (54 cal)and some Thompson center rifles (54 and 58 cal)are usually available fairly cheap and make good hunting rifles




http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/617/1

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/615/1

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/255271/...1137-steel-blue

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/

http://www.chuckhawks.com/58_muzzleloaders.htm


Edited by 340mag (11/20/12 03:45 PM)

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#7095016 - 11/20/12 03:53 PM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: 340mag]
Swampman700 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 11193
Traditional guns are fine for 50 yards and under. I hunted with them exclusively for many years. You also need to be able to live with an occasional misfire. I would stick with the T/C .....owned two of the Brownings and they weren't very accurate.
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#7095057 - 11/20/12 04:09 PM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: Swampman700]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2525
Loc: Boncarbo,Colorado
50 yards and under? Oh my! How the mountain men ever survived.

Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 54cal and percussion, great shooters. I do not care for their flintlocks though.

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#7095370 - 11/20/12 05:36 PM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: bigblock455]
savage62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 6364
Loc: Mi
Swampman700 . Come in from the rain. Ive shot Deer out of a side lock 45-50-54 cal the 45 cal 70 gr with a maxi CVA Kentucky 50 CVA,TC 90 gr an round balls, Maxi, an Sabot. The 54 100 gr maxi farwst was with a side lock CVA Striker . Now these guns all had what was called then acrat shot,Replace the nipple an use this screw in in place of the nipple an use a rifle primmer . Now its called a Mag Spark which use a 209 primmer but still a hammer style . The cleaning is the same as said above an u still have to oil it an Breach plug verse the Nipple, mag spark, or accara shot. Now the 45 took a deer one shot down 10 feet 128 yards.Never in 42 years with these guns have I shot that far again

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#7096310 - 11/21/12 01:37 AM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: bigblock455]
captchee Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1571
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: bigblock455
50 yards and under? Oh my! How the mountain men ever survived.

Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 54cal and percussion, great shooters. I do not care for their flintlocks though.


Now big block ,,, , if 50 yards is swamp mans accepted range while resting off the custom rifle mount that he put on his golf cart , thats ok . I see nothing wrong with that .
Heck I set my limit at 100 even though I know for a fact I can hit targets at 3 times that distance , off hand

if your considering building yourself a custom or semi custom rifle from a parts assembly like those that 340mag posted links to . Know that you will need to do some reading and study well before hand . If not then you may just end up spending 2-3 X that amount when you have to have someone finish the rifle OR you screw it up .
Im not saying you cant build one . There isnt any reason why you cant learn .

If that route is a consideration then I would look at Pecatonica river .
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/
Dick is in most cases cheaper then Track of the wolf . You get the same components, made by the same companies . The wood for the stock is also for the most part a much higher grade then what you will get from ToW for the 2X the cost . Again same stock as track sells , your just buying from one of their manufactures .

The other place I would recommend is Muzzleloader Builder supply .
Good folks with quality products .
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/

On the top end . Of those offering assemblies, I would put Jim Chambers there . IMO Bar non the very top of the list in quality and getting what you pay for in every aspect especially if your thinking of paying for gunsmith fees like inletting and such

http://www.flintlocks.com/

The cheapest avenue I have found for such parts assemblies would be through Ray Franks at Sitting Fox http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/intro.html
. His assemblies are not to bad quality wise . He does offer up grades on locks , triggers and such . You just have to look and ask . Ray will talk you leg off so give him a call and weigh out your options
Know that there are also a lot of other options out there as far as suppliers who can provide you with either parts or completed rifles

Now build wise , again you have a choice . Build it yourself or have someone build it for you .
The costs for completed guns range greatly just as does the quality of the finished piece .
If however you cant aford to have someone finish the rifle for you , then one of your options maybe to have the rifle built to whats called in the white
What that means is that when you get the rifle , its basically built to the point that a kit gun from TC , CVA ,Lyman would be . Whats left for you is the finish work . Prices for in the white guns can also very greatly . One of the reasons is that there are a lot of differing opinions on how far a in the white gun should be completed to .
I have seen cases where it was nothing more the parts inlet to a plank and thus the customer has to do all the shaping. But I also have seen In the white brought to the point where the only thing left to do was light sanding and application of a finish to the stock
So if you chose that route , make sure to ask ;what is the level of completion of the In the white gun your offering me ?
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#7096740 - 11/21/12 06:34 AM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: bigblock455]
340mag Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 2201
Originally Posted By: bigblock455
50 yards and under? Oh my! How the mountain men ever survived.

Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 54cal and percussion, great shooters. I do not care for their flintlocks though.


a quality barrel on a correctly loaded hawken in my experience can almost always hold a 4"-5" or smaller group off the bench rest at even 150 yards making it easily capable of killing game even with the patched round ball, keep in mind your 58 cal ballistics easily match or exceed a 45/70.
a properly loaded 600 grain maxi may not be a high velocity load but it punches effectively and usually exits from most angles in my experience on deer and hogs.
obviously you need to know how to correctly load,size projectiles, and lube a rifle bullet or patch and be consistent, to maximize accuracy



Edited by 340mag (11/21/12 07:42 AM)

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#7097953 - 11/21/12 01:55 PM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: 340mag]
benchman Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 2001
Coupla deer 150 yds and over with my sidelocks. 100 gr. T7 with a 240 xtp - 150yds, small, 135# buck - 172yds, same load, different rifle, big doe. I am normally within 100 yards, and usually limit to 150, because that is how far I normally practice to. The loads are certainly capable of killing deer beyond that. I figure I am basically hunting with the equivilant of a very hot load out of a 44mag.

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#7100099 - 11/22/12 06:05 AM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: Swampman700]
slg888 Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 9196
Loc: Knoxville,TN
Originally Posted By: Swampman700
As long as it isn't made in Spain it will likely be safe to shoot. I'd get a T/C or a Knight.
Get a CVA there the best hunting Muzzleloaders made today.


Swampman700 is retarded..


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#7100163 - 11/22/12 06:24 AM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: slg888]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Pushing a broom at OU....
Originally Posted By: slg888
Originally Posted By: Swampman700
As long as it isn't made in Spain it will likely be safe to shoot. I'd get a T/C or a Knight.
Get a CVA there the best hunting Muzzleloaders made today.


Swampman700 is retarded..

I think Swampman700 is better at yanking everyone's chains than they realize.
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#7100629 - 11/22/12 08:38 AM Re: Selecting a ML Rifle and Load? [Re: Bricktop]
Mauser_Hunter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 4195
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Bricktop
Originally Posted By: slg888
Originally Posted By: Swampman700
As long as it isn't made in Spain it will likely be safe to shoot. I'd get a T/C or a Knight.
Get a CVA there the best hunting Muzzleloaders made today.


Swampman700 is retarded..

I think Swampman700 is better at yanking everyone's chains than they realize.


He's got you fooled.
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Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.

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