Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns hand loading defence ammo

How many here do carry hand loads for the carry ammo ? Now I do know it is not legally recomended cause it opens up an exrta liability factor, but if one was to load the same bullet, case, primer and powder (if possiable) to the same velocity or slightly lower than the factory ones shoot would it be out of the question ? lets have some imput here ?

Well sorry to bother , I have not seen this question ask before

It gets discussed fairly often in various threads about defensive ammunition but not often in a dedicated thread like this one.
I am not aware of any actual court cases where the use of handloaded ammo was an issue, but personally would not want to be the first test case. I am sure that there are plaintiff's attorneys out there who research these things and may be eager to bring the matter up under favorable (to them) circumstances. Why give the opposing counsel anything extra to use against you in court? Having said that, if the shooting is ruled justifiable, you would probably be OK and if it is ruled unjustifiable, you will have worse things to worry about.

Back in the days when good defensive factory ammo was rare, reloads might have been worth carrying. Today, however, the factories are putting out excellent ammunition and there is no ballistic or terminal performance advantage to reloaded ammo for defensive purposes.

Another factor is that, honestly, many reloaders do not produce handgun ammunition that is as good as they think it is. If one round in 50 has a high primer or a bulged case, Murphy's Law will place that round under the firing pin when the fur starts to fly.

I vote for factory ammo only for serious social purposes. But it's a free country.

I often end up carrying reloads. Generally speaking its 230 round nose lead cast bullets in a 45acp.

Because thats whats in the gun and mags when I was shooting it last, and I fail to remember to change ammo out.

Doesn't worry my mind one bit. I do make sure the wife typically has factory though, I'd hate for her to be aggravated by one extra thing in court if it ever happened....

FWIW I'm a competition shooter and so is my wife. Last time I cranked out 45s, it was appx 5000 rounds. We have not quite fired all that yet... I have yet to hit one that failed....

I have settled into using factory ammunition in my semi auto pistols. The commercial loads do what I want, and are readily available.
I hand load for my defense revolvers, as well as my hunting/outdoors revolvers. Being able to tailor a specific load for a specific purpose, is important to me.


I have always felt it was utter BS that hand loads were a legal liability.

If I were to have a non speed related traffic accident in my Shelby Cobra with overbore cylinders and quad carbs and blower, i would not worry about that either. If you are meticulously drilling out the noses and filling them with arsenic and curare, then you might have a problem.

There it is!!!

Massad Ayoob popularized the theory that you should only carry factory loads due to them being less liable in a court case. At some point, people started questioning this and by now I think most people can't recite any cases where it mattered.

As far as loading for practice...my thought has always been that the place you save some money is in the bullet. You can take a good cast bullet and load it to the same velocity and have a practice load that duplicates your carry load, recoil-wise, without the expense of either factory loads or premium bullets. Then you carry either factory or reloads with the bullets you want.

I'm like Rost495. I have loaded literally tens of thousands of handgun rounds and have yet to have one not go bang. I carry reloads in all my hand guns and don't worry about it.Fact is I think besides 22 RF ammo,I might have at best 50 rounds of commercial 9mm ammo on hand and that is only becasue PMC put out a bunch of crap 22 RF ammo and they sent me this as an additive when they replaced two cases of the 22 ammo.

Great guys I am pretty much seeing a coming theme here . I personally like gold dots for a defence bullet but around here you cant hardly find them in factory loads and if you do you have to go to the bank to get a loan. But have noticed from my reloading suppier gold dots are about the same money as dang old win. HP. My goal will be to get once fired speer nickle brass. use the correct cci primer try to find the factory type of powder and charge if I cant I will chrono a factory round or two and match velocity. any other suggestions ?

I could not fnd any 10mm ammo that duplicated the original Norma/Dorneaus and Dixon power level, and no one was loading Gold dots or similar in 10mm factory loads So.... I played around with variou spowders and such and came up with 14.6gr of AA#9 with 180gr Gold Dots at 1375fps with no issues running them in my much modified Delta Elite.

IF someone MADE a factory load that was this good, I would buy it and use it but they don't so I roll my own.

IMO, if a shooting is legally "Righteous" it will matter little if the ammo is factory or home made. If the shooting is not legally correct, it still will not matter you are in deep kimshee. Might be an issue in a personal injury situation/courtroom but I am pretty judgement proof these days.

I carry factory ammo, not my own handloads, for defensive purposes.
The so called legal issues are not the reason(s) I do. Factory ammo comes with coatings and sealants to make for a long self life. I simply am not setup to make this type of ammo. That and the brass has no dings in it which can cause a hangup. Doesn't happen often, but it can.
I practice with handloads because it's much cheaper. The ones I use shoot the same zero as my carry ammo.
BTW, I don't buy the special tactical ammo. Mine is the simple white box, 230 gr. Winchester HP, .45 ACP stuff which has plenty of power for anything, even shooting through doors and windshield glass. Now, if I packed a 9mm, I'd probably buy the Hornady stuff that works even when it hits drywall and clothing, etc.
Really, the only things I concern myself with in a carry gun is (a) hitting the Bad Guy and (b) making sure the gun works all of the time. And in that order. E

This is one of two areas where I entirely ignore Massad Ayoob's advice...



The other would be toupee choice.

I once heard Ayoob say in regards to this and certain other weapon mods something along the lines of "Being involved in a shooting can put anyone on thin ice. I just want to keep people where it's thickest."

That is a very good metaphor in that, even if you think the odds of such practices as handloading defense ammo holds very, very little real-world risk (and this is what I think) there's no denying that it COULDN'T be an issue. I mean, you could get hit by a meteorite too, unlikely as it might be. Factory ammo affords less risk of some beserk DA trying to make a big deal out of it. And remember, even if you can completely refute his histrionics it would probaly cost you lawyer time to do so.

Is there risk? Yes. Is it very, very slight? Yes. Your call.

Im a hand loader also,my wifes guns are all loaded with factory.
For me Some times its factory but more often than not its its my own.got a great deal on 9mm and 45 Gold dots a while back and have about 1500 of each loaded up.Hard to pay factory prices with the ammo I have put up.

The risk, however small, in using reloaded ammo (other than any risk of malfunction due to loading errors) would not be likely to exist in the criminal investigation of a shooting. The shooting is either justified or it is not. You will either be charged with a crime based on probable cause or you will not.

The risk would be centered on the civil proceeding that may follow a shooting, whether justified or not. Anybody can sue anybody for anything, and if you shoot somebody there is a great possibility of being the target of a lawsuit, regardless of the outcome of the criminal investigation.

In a civil suit, the standard of proof is a preponderance of the evidence, NOT proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The side that has the largest 'stack" of evidence will probably win. The use of reloads may end up being one of the items in the stack. It MIGHT be the final thing that sways a jury to a finding of gross negligence.

Personally I prefer to do the simple things that could reduce my risk, whether it is wearing my seat belt while driving or being a bit overcautious about the ammo I carry.

A good Plaintiff's attorney will study this subject and gather up every bit of manure he possibly can to fling at you in the courtroom, hoping that some of it sticks. Why supply him with an extra handful to throw?

Mr Smith, I understand you are a chef?

Yes sir.

How many knives do you own?

A few, of course I have some for work, and some for hobby.

Do you sharpen your own knives, Mr Smith?

Why yes I do.

Do you carefully hone the edges so to be as sharp as possible Mr Smith?

Yes sir.

Did you use one of those carefully honed and polished knives to stab your assailant? (Of course it would be "the law abiding plaintiff")

No I used a dull butterknife, because that was all I had at the time.

So you are a professional user of knives Mr Smith, even dull butter knives?



I could go on and on with that one...

Coatings and sealants for bullets, come otu of a fingernail type polish bottle... easy to buy, easy to use, assuming you feel the need.

Of course I would think we've loaded some 200,000 or more rounds of 223 for competition over the years... the ONLY place I've had a failure in them is the 3am batches probably... I recall 2 rounds that never got powder.... And though this was not rely your life on ammo, it damn sure aint' cheap to shoot all year and then travel from TX to Ohio and stay and shoot a couple weeks with costs and entry fees etc.... IE I wouldn't risk bad ammo in that instance either.

IMHO I can make better and more reliable ammo than the factory can...

About a year or 2 ago Ayoob responded to a thread like this, might have been on Rugerforum, can't recall.
Anyway, he cited 2 cases where guys are currently doing hard time because they weren't using factory ammo. One of them involved shooting the defendant's wife, he said suicide, prosecutor said murder.

So, you guys go ahead and keep stoking your handloads, and keep that Alfred E Neuman smile on your face. I'll continue to practice with reloads and carry factory.


Pete