Concealability, the only asset for a handgun, would be a huge factor if you're dumb enough to go to the mall during a period of civil unrest. Sorry, not for me, I don't like malls anyway. But I'm sure you didn't mean malls specifically but instead foot travel of any sort. And you are absolutly correct. I don't know or here of anyone that packs a long gun in their "get home" bag.
But SHTF is a very broad term and in most cases involves buggin in or vehicle travel. So most of the time a handgun is merely a firearm that's harder to shoot straight and less powerful. Do you realize how bad things would have to be for me to be foot traveling in rural Iowa cause home was no longer safe? Not too worried if someone notes I'm packin a 12ga in this case. Might save some poor miscreant's life that way.
Maybe the issue in the debate is defining what constitutes "SHTF".
I've been in war zones and for me, that is about as SHTF as it gets.
In those places, I was the security. I feared long guns far more than hand guns because they were used much more effectively against us.
I'm not saying that there weren't any, but I can't think of a single time I air lifted a wounded soldier or local national that was shot with a handgun.
1000's with rifles though....
Mall's in a SHTF scenario!? Not a chance. Street vendors at best. With a collapsed economy you're not going to have malls....
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
I don't think any of us know what form "SHTF" will take, or what will be required in the event that things go that badly. Taking that into consideration, I think the prudent folks will already have on hand, the tools to handle whatever comes up. Handgun? Yep, got that
I don't think any of us know what form "SHTF" will take, or what will be required in the event that things go that badly. Taking that into consideration, I think the prudent folks will already have on hand, the tools to handle whatever comes up. Handgun? Yep, got that
Rifle? Yep got that too
Shotgun? you bet!
Yes, but do you have 4 cans of Spam and a loaf of bread?
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
I don't know if I buy a lot of the assumptions in the OP. Large parts of the US don't have much in common with a third world country. If somebody sets up a "checkpoint", they had best be a world-class badass, and/or have a bunch of buddies, because there's going to be a whole bunch of regular folks with guns not taking too kindly to that. Add on the pent-up hate and discontent that's going to go along with a breakdown of law and order, and I'm not so sure ruling out long guns makes much sense.
That�s what everyone says before it happens. Then they see a half dozen, well armed hard cases and they start thinking very long and hard about when, where, and what to fight over. My first and foremost responsibility is to MY family. So if someone says, hey let�s go take on the hard cases because they�re running a road block, I�ll only do so if it�s directly threatening the well being of my family. When it all hits the fan, most take good stock of what�s really important, and the tough talk just quietly goes away.
Handguns make a lot of sense.
A checkpoint set up by local militia can be put out of business real quick by a single rifleman who knows his craft.
I don't think any of us know what form "SHTF" will take, or what will be required in the event that things go that badly. Taking that into consideration, I think the prudent folks will already have on hand, the tools to handle whatever comes up. Handgun? Yep, got that
KG, your initial post poses some good questions and comments. I've heard some very erudite, sensible, and experienced men say similar things, so I think you're working along the right lines.
As to having a dozen handguns of the same type, that's an interesting idea. I've got a number of handguns, a lot of which are pretty much utilitarian pieces. Not to say they're "drop" guns, but I bought them used, have used them some more, and if they went bye-bye, I could live with it.
I have a lot of faith in the 9mm round, despite the disparagement it's always endured. I did a quick check on a couple of online gun stores and see that I can pick up PD-surplus Glock 17's for about $390 apiece, or S&W 6906's for about $370 apiece. If you know where to look, you could get similar pricing on G19's, or Beretta M9's.
You could get a dozen of these pistolas for about what you'd pay for 4-5 AR-15's.
Interesting concept.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
I read an interesting article about Argentina, I believe. It was about their financial collapse. The author basically said that threats came from near rather than afar. So yeh handguns are probably the best choice.
Being present during a few instances of riots getting out of hand for a few hours or days, I pretty much agree with Kevin. Maybe this is just true in Kalifornia, but it apparently happens in similar places as well. Or so those I've met on the inside tell me. What I've noticed over the years is that it happens in the big cities and similar environments. What happens is that the cops get busy with anything, even a so called "peaceful demonstration," and they are no longer responding to calls for assistance. In a full blown riot, they are over whelmed for days, even weeks. Ask anybody who had anything to do with the LA riots, either in the 60's or the Rodney King riots. BTW, in the RK riots, you had the US military taking over for the local cops and the national guard. That's because many of the local cops and some of the guard refused to confront the rioters. Others were told they couldn't have more than two rounds in each of their M16 magazines. These places had people manning roof tops in their neighborhoods because car loads of gang memebers would drive through neighborhoods and shoot randomly at the homes there. Small bussinesses in the "riot neighborhood" expended cases of shotgun shells with birdshot trying to drive off looters to their stores. So, if you need to move about, you are probably better off with a handgun as even the authorities will take away your long guns if you venture away from your home or bussiness with one. But, so far, they don't get around taking them from you at home or at your bussiness. Since I'm on the subject, I suspect we will see some more of this sort of thing here in sunny Kalifornia. E
I lived in LA at the time of the Rodney King riots, too. I spent the better part of a week carrying a pistol 24/7 and had a loaded 12 gauge within easy reach at home. As for the response by others... the most interesting, to me, was the response by the Korean community, which clearly included some veterans. In some cases, they manned rooftops, set up overlaping fields of fire, etc. I remember TV footage of some engaged in a firefight, laying down suppressing fire with... drum roll here... handguns. Not sure if my memory is completely accurate on this, but I seem to remember seeing more 1911s in their hands than anything.
If you're fixin' to put a hole in something, make it a hole to remember.
lewis perkins doesn't really post here anymore but he was a wealth of info on topics like this and his take was - your best bet is to stay under the radar. If you don't there's no amount of force you can have that the bad guys can't top.
If S really did HTF, I'd do my very very best to follow his advice and not become a target in the first place.
Biden's most truthful quote ever came during his first press conference, 03/25/21. Drum roll please...... "I don't know, to be clear." and THAT is one promise he's kept!!!
In a true SHTF situation there's no doubt a an AR-15 or nice lever gun and a 12 gauge would be my first choice but if we're going with pistols only id definitely grab my Five-seveN and throw my 12 loaded mags into a bag with a few boxes of ammo and be on my way. A pistol that holds 21 rounds of ammo at rifle velocities (2600 fps EA T6 load) sounds pretty good to me!
I read an interesting article about Argentina, I believe. It was about their financial collapse. The author basically said that threats came from near rather than afar. So yeh handguns are probably the best choice.
Maybe somebody else knows of this article.
Yes, I read about the Argentina collapse as well, and one or two authors commented on the necessity for having a handgun or two for protection against predators. It's a bit outside the topic area, but my bro-in-law is looking at retiring in Argentina in a few years, as they have made a very good fiscal recovery in the past decade, and I'm starting to look at doing the same.
Personally, I've always had reason to believe that the handgun is the most versatile form of personal defensive weaponry. Goes back to Dr. Watson, who Sherlock Holmes relied on, suggesting, "bring your revolver" on their more dangerous forays.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
KG, your initial post poses some good questions and comments. I've heard some very erudite, sensible, and experienced men say similar things, so I think you're working along the right lines.
As to having a dozen handguns of the same type, that's an interesting idea. I've got a number of handguns, a lot of which are pretty much utilitarian pieces. Not to say they're "drop" guns, but I bought them used, have used them some more, and if they went bye-bye, I could live with it.
I have a lot of faith in the 9mm round, despite the disparagement it's always endured. I did a quick check on a couple of online gun stores and see that I can pick up PD-surplus Glock 17's for about $390 apiece, or S&W 6906's for about $370 apiece. If you know where to look, you could get similar pricing on G19's, or Beretta M9's.
You could get a dozen of these pistolas for about what you'd pay for 4-5 AR-15's.
Interesting concept.
The areas where I witnessed such things were in a state of anarchy as their society was transitioning regimes. The comment about not going to the mall made by someone else implies that such a situation will be very short lived; maybe it will, maybe it won�t. Regardless of what happens, life goes on for most. Most societies still function, and mostly function the same. Electricity becomes a hit and miss thing as power companies struggle to provide security for their people, or collect money from those who use their services; often the local currency is all but worthless. In the one nation I was in, they had defaulted to the dollar rather quickly. People still went to jobs, still shopped at supermarkets, still took kids to daycare. The one BIG thing that did change was the level of crime; which had absolutely skyrocketed. The other thing was the political assassinations, which were no longer confined to politicians anymore. Most anyone who was very active on one side or the other of the local politics was a potential target, and bystanders would occasionally get caught up.
This is more the type of situation I envision. I�ve lived through a disaster in my area, and I�m fortunate that my area went through weeks without power during the coldest winter in years and everyone remained rather civil and there was a great sense of community. I don�t see that in large urban areas, but it works here.
When a government falls, the opportunists come out and they can be ruthless. The road blocks are often community based, and have the support of said community. You may find yourself being disarmed by rather nice people. Or you may find yourself being disarmed by thugs; depends on the situation.
As for �dealing� with such road blocks, in Nicaragua in the early �80�s, I never once saw anyone challenge such road blocks until an actual organized army decided to challenge them. When they did so, it wasn�t so much taking out the road block as just sending a message to everyone that one faction or the other was in charge �here�.
I expect that the US government will cease to exist in my lifetime; I�ve maintained that position for at least 15 years and I see more evidence of it, not less. When that happens, who knows what will happen. What I do know is, people will still need power, food, and money. So there may be a short time of �hunkering down�, but that period is very short, and most people try to return to normal out of necessity. And for most things, the �normal� is resumed, but crime skyrockets.
have a friend that retired in Panama, and he seems to really like it other than missing work.
it's appealing to me, other than thinking about being an old, rich (to them anyway) white guy, in a sea of lotsa poor brown skinned folk
but I've had Russian emigrants that have done well here and love this country tell me, it's time to start thinking about moving somewhere else.
I'm gonna have to look into gettin one of these guns you guys talk about though, it seems a prudent move.
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
