Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Gays

I don't see rational discourse and entertainment as mutually exclusive. OT's assertion regarding HIV/AIDs funding was rational but so ignorantly false that it was only worth commenting on for the entertainment value. His quip of a crumb off the HIV table was worth the price of admission.

You have been around enough (even on just this thread alone) to know what my post are like. No one believes your false claim of a mistake. Pretty easy to check that it was you that trolled me. You can't handle the weight class so it me that is the troll?

Since what I post hurts your troll sensitive vag, put me on ignore. That will show me my bad and won't cost you a penny in hurt vag cream.

When and where did the issue become "gay" - an old and formerly delightful and useful term describing a certain positive state of mind and feeling? Was not that term deliberately appropriated as an euphemism in efforts to diminish the negative stigma of homosexuality? The issue is homosexuality, its aberrancy, and the fact that homosexual behavior is deplored by society in general. Notice - I did not say that the homosexual person is to be deplored or hated - the focus is on the behavior and its effects.

The matter of "choice" regarding homosexual behavior has been misued and abused - and who is to say how another person is "born" and whether or not their proclivities are inbred or chosen? All of us were born sinners, we all have negative proclivities or ideas of one sort or another, and we all have to deal with those. We make choices about our behavior - and some make such choices with more intelligence and responsibility, and from a stronger moral base than do others.

You can argue all you wish about whether homosexuals were born as such or made a choice to be homosexuals - it does not matter at all. What does matter are the behavioral choices. Those who choose to engage in homosexual actions are making that action decision for themselves - and they ALONE are responsible for the choice (not their parents, their environment, their chromosomes, or whatever) - it is a choice about how to behave.

All of us are tempted to act in ways not acceptable - some choose to avoid such actions - others choose to maim, kill, rape, rob, etc. Those are choices. The decision to engage homosexual behavior is a choice.

And, before you start in on how many homosewxuals I have known or undestood - forget it. I have known, been friends with and worked alongside homosexual persons for almost 60 years - regularly and productively - and sometimes sadly.

We get nowhere by ignoring the actualities, concocting silly euphemisms and avoiding blame. God has already sorted this out, and will act accordingly.

Meanwhile, here on earth, I have no desire or intent to act as judge and jury about homosexuals. On the other hand, I do not want them to flaunt their behavior and social agendas in my face, demand special privileges because of their unusual behavior, or try to redefine the natural and normal tenets on which this successful society has been based. We never get all that we want - but I do know my preferences, and I alone am responsible for my behavioral choices.

What two consenting adults do behind closed doors should be no one's business. My brother does not "flaunt" anything. He's not married, and does not want any special priveledges. He wants to be accepted. Most people don't accept his "life style", and thats fine. But, he also should be allowed to make decisions for himself that do not interfere with other's lives only to be called a [bleep] or fornicator by the over zealous religious pundits.

Just because it's written in a book somewhere, doesn't make it truth. That is not a slam against the Bible only an observation.

The decision to engage in homosexual behavior does not affect you or anyone else not involved. That is the key point that I don't feel you are getting. The rapes, murders, etc, have a victim. Two homosexuals in a consentual relationship have no victim. That is the point.

I know I'm not going to change your mind, but neither will you change mine. He's my brother, and while it is not by cup of tea, it is what it is and I still love him. His "choice" was not to live a lie and be miserable all of his life. If that "choice" was the wrong one in God's eye, then he will have to deal with those consequences. I for one will not put him in hell for it either on earth or else where.

If two consenting adults want to have homosexual sex in the privacey of their own home so be it. I don't see how that behavior affects you at all. Unless of course you feel a need to judge someone else's legal behavior.


You say "God has already sorted it out". Did he tell you that directly or did you just read about it? Because we all know that everything written in the Bible is the gospel truth right. No inconsistencies there, right?


For the record, I am Catholic. That comes with it's own amount of baggage to many here. I am open minded enough to not judge all by the actions of some. I don't like what he is, but I suspect he doesn't either. He's taken a lot of chit for it and will continue to do so for the rest of his life.

I've got way more important things to worry about then who my neighbor is screwing. (unless it's my wife ) I'm not going to force my moral code on sex on anyone. Sadly, too many want to do just that. Life's too short for that.



Clyde


P.S. He's the one that gave me my sig line. He heard some comedian say it. Even he thought it was funny.

All of us are tempted to act in ways not acceptable


So who gets to decide that consentual privat homosexual sex is not acceptable? YOU?



Clyde

Clyde - how, then, do you decide truth - even just for yourself?

With knowledge of some facts, you might wish to reconsider your position that "homosexual behavior does not affect anyone else not involved".

Your compassion for your brother is palpable and touching - and I think he must be fortunate to have you in his corner. Injurious name-calling is the action of cowards and bullies, and if your brother is affected by that, it is sad and regrettable.

Likewise, I think it is sad that some people purposely pervert our language in order to create what they think are "politically correct" euphemisms for abnormal behavior. Can't we just call things what they are? My personal goal is to acknowledge where I behave abnormally according to our moral and societal norms, and to own my behavioral decisions. Sometimes I succeed in this.

I have no way to know what "consentual (sic) privat (sic) homosexual sex" is like or specifically what it does to people - those engaged in it or those otherwise affected. Yet, such behavior is not acceptable to me - just as many other things are not acceptable - like your spelling or your trying to place words in my mouth. Among other things, I also find cheating, lying, and farting in public gatherings unacceptable.

If you do not know of or behave according to any moral code - Biblical or otherwise - then I can see why it would be difficult for you to understand why and how others can make decisions about what is, and is not, acceptable.

I never said, and do not believe, that my words, views or codes should be law for anyoine else. However, I think I understand the tenets on which they are based and am confident in them to the point where I am prepared to take responsibility for my decisions and positions.

Clyde, we all get to make decisions like those you challenge. It seems to me that what matters most is the foundation for those decisions and the degree to which our espoused beliefs are consistent with our beliefs in force. I am still working on the foundation and the consistency.

What are you doing?

Well, I guess I need to work on my spelling, as it seems to have struck a nerve. Other than that, I struggle on a personal level with my beliefs and my own moral compass in regards to my brother. I don't agree with his path, but who am I to tell him how to live his life. I had first hand experience with his "choice". He told me he wished he was " normal". Hell, sometimes I don't even think I'm normal. Exactly what is normal or moral? Who gets to decide? I'm not saying his lifestyle is moral or immoral, I don't think it's for me to decide that. One could say societal norms dictate morality, and I guess I agree with that to an extent. However, societal norms tend to change over time, and acceptance of certain things does become normal. Do I think it's normal to be homosexual? Actually, no I don't. But I do feel it's a physical anomaly that we don't fully understand.

As far as his choice to engage in sexual activity, I think it's gross. But, I'm not going to judge him based solely on his decision to have sex with another man. It may be a sin or it may not be a sin. It's only a very small part of who he is. If I let myself focus on the grossness of the act, then I guess it would be easy to become intolerant of him.

Look, I'm in agreement that society is generally going to dictate what is accepted and what is not. I'm not even trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to convey his side of the story from more of a BTDT point of view.(that could be taken wrong)

As far as what I'm doing. I can tell you more of what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to worry about what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Too often, I think people inject emotion into this topic. I would like to think my actions are more centered on the person than the homosexual act. But that's me.

Serious question. I'm trying to get more of a handle on your perspective. Are you against the homosexual in general, or the homosexual sex?

By the way, I only used gay as it was easier to type on an i-pad than homosexual. Not sure if you were inferring I was trying to soften things up by calling them gays instead of homosexual.


By the way, exactly what facts do you have about homosexual behavior affecting others? Are you saying it makes people feel uncomfortable or uneasy, therefore affecting them? If that's what you are saying, I guess I do see that as a very small issue, but a valid one.


I too am quite comfortable in my decisions and moral compass. In actuality, it would be a pretty mundane, and mainstream compass. Unfortunately, too many think theirs is right and others are wrong. Truthfully, at some point I think we all take a position of moral superiority on one topic or another. This is just one topic that strikes a nerve.

Additonally, my first post was to someone else wo quoted scripture to support his point of view. The questions I posed went unanswered by him. I don't recall trying to put words in your mouth. But if I did it wasn't intentional.

Your son or daughter has just come "out of the closet". What are YOU going to do?



Clyde

Got a buddy down the road a few that has a buddy and he told me that he thought this guy was queer! When I asked him how he knew the reply was...."Every time I kiss him he giggles"!!

Clyde - you seem to be a very good guy - and I can feel that this issue is difficult for you due to your personal/filial relationship. That has got to be tough - it sure would be for me.

A full explanation in reply to your comments/questions likely would be lengthy and complicated, and for this place I will keep it as simple as I can. In cases like this, I do my best to eschew the sins and love the sinner. That is one of the teachings I try to follow.

At times it may not appear that way because I see almost all of life as a confrontation to be engaged, and usually do so readily. Being forthright and calling things what one sees them to be often is not popular with some folks, but life on earth is not a popularity contest. The bottom line is serious.

This! I don't care what my neighbor does with his wife and I don't care what Bob does with George. Keep it to yourself.
I had a cousin, six months older than I, that was gay. He died of aids. I hated his sin, but not him. But, he didn't flaunt it either. He was raised by an overbearing mother and a father who ignored him. I felt sorry for him and the conflict that seemed to go on within himself.

What I hate is their push to make this seem "normal" and their wanting everyone to conform to their mixed up ways of thinking. I watched a certain denomination become more and more tolerant and acceptive of gays to the point of ruin. Why must they change an organization? Why not just start their own?

It is not now or ever will be normal. It is a perversion just as beastiality and pedophilia.

Hey, can rifle looniness be considered a perversion?

I appreciate the debate on such a hot topic. It is a very complex issue. I more appreciate the civility of our discussions, as there is always more to gain speaking to each other rather than at each other. I always tell myself I'm not going to debate this topic here anymore, but alas, it is a rather passionate topic that puts people on opposite sides of the coin. Sometimes I can't restrain myself.


I agree, love the sinner hate the sin. I guess that's the simplest way to state both of our cases.

Take care,


Clyde