Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Sad Day for Winchester Model 70 fans

Many, many, MANY more...


(THANKS RINO ROBERTS, YOU POS)

So let me get this straight... you all think Europe is less restrictive, and has fewer social programs (including healthcare) than a place like South Carolina, USA?

Laughing...

Im laughing with you Brad. Europe vs SC. Europes healthcare and social programs are over the top. Cradle to grave mean anything to anyone.

Yep, but cradle to grave they get pennies to the dollar compared to the US. In the US, these new regs and taxes that kick in will make a deep cut into profits and make it difficult for the company to expand. Moving operations are welcomed with open arms and cheap overhead costs making expansion easier on the pockets with fewer taxes and regs. End results, more product out the door at a greater profit with far less hassle.

There is very little incentive for any company to invest in hiring and expansion within the US. SC has a big monkey on its back with the added burden of all these federal laws going into effect starting in 2013, they are monumental for anyone having a production facility requiring lots of employees. Even chain operations having part time employees will probably need to cut additional employee hours to avoid the added costs of these new regs and taxes.

The writing was on the wall with the end of Winchester and closing of the Winchester plant in 2006. This is just another nail in the coffin for the Winchester brand name, an actual Winchester made in the US by Winchester is already long gone.

Brad, you are correct.

This is truely sad.


ddj

Jeez, some of you guys have ideas that just don't mesh with reality.

Manufacturing has been moving out if the U.S. for decades, that shouldn't surprise anyone with a set of eyes. The reason is because IT'S EXPENSIVE to make stuff in the U.S., and it's about to get more expensive. Portugal's wages are half the U.S., and their corporate tax rate is 10% less than ours. Corporations don't give a schit about cradle to grave social programs or free health care, they care about profits. If Portugal gives free health care they don't care so long as they get to make more money. Many times it is cheaper to do business in Europe. For years Microsoft has distributed software from Ireland because its cheaper, they develop the software in California then run it through a server in Ireland & presto, it's a product of Ireland. They do this for the tax advantages. Just because a country is a welfare state it doesn't mean it costs more to do business there, they're separate things.

Have either of you two even been to Europe? It doesn't seem like you understand how things work to be frank.

Crow. Were saying the same thing. We already are more expensive here. So add the social programs and it only gets worse here. That is what i am saying. The US has a hard time competing and if we saddle industry more it will get worse.

Taconite plants and precious metal mines are proliferating up here in heavily unionized NE MN.

Assembly is the low skills part of the gun manufacturing industry. Forging, rifling and machining are where high skilled labor is utilized. That's where the real money is and that's staying here where the skill is.

Bravo.

A Portugese made Winchester just has no appeal, but I generally don't like any modern relics of an old classic.

Just a SWAG, but here is my take. The FN factory in SC was set up to produce military rifles. They are making them as fast as possible. Moving model 70 production to that factory may well have been in the way and slowed production of their real profit makers. Unless I'm mistaken they only make the barreled actions there and buy stocks and bottom metal from other suppliers anyway. If they have an under utilized factory in Portugal it might make sense to move production there. The stock and bottom metal suppliers can ship to Portugal about as easily as SC. This would allow them to increase production in SC for military weapons, their real money maker.

But like I said, just a guess.

True, Portugal has national health care. But overall costs there, coupled with most likely cheaper labor, is a reason ( I belive) FN decided to make this switch...

Take O-care and add it to union labor here and you got a cost issue that makes sense to ship it out..



If I'm wrong - I'm wrong.. But I DO know a few companies here that are either cutting workforce, or having workers go to an under-30-hour work week to get out of that hated O-care..

Wages in Portugal "may" be slightly less for the workers than in SC (I'm doubtful), but what the EMPLOYER pays to the state PER WORKER in Portugal (or any EU country) is significantly higher than in the USA.

I'm certain there's more going on here than any of us know...

Yup, been over a dozen times, including Portugal. Also lived in Germany.

I believe I have a passing idea about the EU... would also add, EU manufacturer's (particularly large mfg's) are worried about industry MOVING from the EU to the USA because of dropping energy costs in the USA, and generally lower wages... wonder how your scenario squares with that?

Hey, any argument is fine, no matter how specious, if you can point out that the US of A is going down the drain due to the ACA and other policies put in place by our wretched politicians.
One in particular, He Who Must Not Be Named.

Unlike the plethora of fugging whiners on this forum, I'm bullish on America... likely because I've been all over the world and seen how most of it functions.

We're still the best bet going...

Me too!

And for the same reason.

Agreed.

Pre-64, post 64, if its made in new haven, ct its a winchester. I'm a huge winchester m70 fan and I hate to admit this, but my first and probably last fn m70 is a stainless featherweight that had to go back to the service center three times and it was almost four but I took a chance and fixed the problem myself the last time it came back. their current QC inspection is a joke. It'll be a sad day when they aren't made in the usa though.

One of the best posts I have read in a long time.
I have been all over as well, and I completely agree.We have some self induced problems, but nothing that cant be overcame, provided the will is there