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I meant the heydey of when they were on the leading edge of DG cartridge development, not referring to those calibers still in use.

375R still offers potential for improvement via reloading OR if one doesn't reload, factory ammo is set to go....

375HH; you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig....

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I have a 375R African. I've owned a couple H&H's. I bought the Ruger not because I thought it was better or outperformed the H&H, but because I really liked the rifle. IMO, it's a lot of rifle for the $$

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Originally Posted by krummarine
I meant the heydey of when they were on the leading edge of DG cartridge development, not referring to those calibers still in use.

375R still offers potential for improvement via reloading OR if one doesn't reload, factory ammo is set to go....

375HH; you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig....


fine. what cartridge development have we seen that did not somehow come from the Brits or the Teutonics about 100 years ago?

the 375 H&H a pig? to the contrary, she's a long leggy blond while the 375 Ruger is the drunken chick one finds at last call. no comparison.

Last edited by bluefish; 12/13/12.

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well, I guess we could start with the 6 PPC which was derived from a russian case. currently the most accurate benchrest round in use..........

should we continue?

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thought we were talking about DG carts here?

shall we continue?


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you didn't specify that;


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you did when you spoke of the British heyday being past and when the discussion centered around the 375 bore.


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Originally Posted by ingwe
Mark: I dont really know how to quantify it, but the kick of a .338 is more 'abrupt' and sharp. Similar to the difference ( does that make sense?) between a .300 Win Mag and a .300 H&H mag.
I attribute it to the sloping shoulders on the H&H cartridges, though I have no basis in fact...or it could just be that its better to get kicked by a true classic. Kinda like getting a kiss on the cheek from a woman. Would you prefer Sofia Vergara to do it, or your Aunt Sophie?


I think you quantifyed it just right, as these are my same impressions. I've sold 3 338WM and now only have the 375H&H. It's more of a push than a punch imo.

To the OP, whichever has the best stock design, the metal work should all be very similar.

Edited to add - haven't seen Aunt Sophie, but just to be safe, and enternally blissed, I'm going with Sofia Vergara. Sometimes you don't need complete information to make a good choice.

Last edited by RichardAustin; 12/13/12.

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no, you did.

"fine. what cartridge development have we seen that did not somehow come from the Brits or the Teutonics about 100 years ago?"


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I don't know what I did but mostly have no disagreement with that. Ingwe just expressed my sentiments exactly, thats all.


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wasn't this just about the 375 or not?


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sorry, I was responding to bluefish's desparate attempt to rekindle the dying flame of the British empire...........

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Thanks for that. It took me so long to type a response I hadn't caught that banter.


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I'm done. We could debate this forever. 375 H&H was once King; no argument there but it's been outmoded by better options. It is the length it is so it could enough cordite "stick" powder to push the .375 bullet that it does; not because it was the best design.

IT's still a good round; but the available rifles it's now chambered in are more expensive than what you need to pay to get the same performance in a better case.

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My friend I wholeheartedly disagree! Were it indeed outmoded as a design why are there so many relied upon cartridges extant which owe their very existence to it, and further which are agreed upon as 1st class cartridges? The 416 Rem Mag, the 458 Win Mag and the 458 Lott to name but three.

Any M70 can be chambered in the 375 H&H as the action length is the same in the Classic series whether 270 338 or 375. it matters not.

and do some research - there exist threads here where posters are discussing feeding and ejection issues with their 375 and 416 rugers. in a properly tuned action I suspect it happens less with the 375 due to its design which causes it to canter in slightly toward the feed ramp ensuring smooth feeding.

for the moment can you at least tell what makes the ruger design "better" as you say and what criteria you use to arrive at your conclusion?

have to do some work but will check for a response later. i'm certainly enjoying the conversation.


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Originally Posted by krummarine
I meant the heydey of when they were on the leading edge of DG cartridge development, not referring to those calibers still in use.

375R still offers potential for improvement via reloading OR if one doesn't reload, factory ammo is set to go....

375HH; you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig....


.375 Ruger fanboys never fail to amaze me.

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Originally Posted by krummarine
"I don't see the Ruger case(good as it may be)overtaking the Holland any time soon.....some folks will believe anything."

and some folks will hug outdated technology because of nostalgia not function or performance. No dangerous game in North America, you say? Really? Ask Phil Shoemaker about that.

the British heyday of DG cartridges and African colonialism is over; let it go.

The 375R is here to stay and will continue to gain acceptance and popularity...



Please! Pitch this garbage somewhere else! cry

You can call names and make fun of those older than you but if you think you're fooling anybody with this crap, forget it.... grin

...a company regurgitates a design 99 years old,(30 newton) necks it 375,and suddenly everything else, time proven and battle worn,is rendered to the bone yard by the 21st Century crowd who thinks its "new" and therefor, better. grin I swear on here if it wasn't invented in the last 24 hours,the youngsters on here think its' obsolete!

The 300 WSM comes to mind as well....that design is only about 50-60 years old.If you think the 375 Ruger is "new" your cartridge history knowledge needs some bonin' up....hell its' only a few thou larger than the old 35 Newton! Same/same! smile

I suppose under your logic we ought to scrap the 470 NE,416 Rigby,the 404 Jeffrey, and the 450-400 as well? grin

Yeah I know brown bear are dangerous wink....I also know few will see them, and relatively fewer will ever hunt them.

The Brits have forgotten more about what makes a DG cartridge/rifle tick than most Americans will ever know,you among them....

Brown bear are only dangerous if you let them get close....I know the 375H&H made short work of two of them for me,so they didn't get close enough....

krummarine how far did yours go after getting whacked with the Ruger? confused

Superior to the 375H&H?..... What a riot. You really have to stop making stuff up... smirk





The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Regardless of any advantage (real or theoretical) the newer .375's may have, the original H&H has always got the job done and always will. We shooters like to "tweak" things and manufacturers need "new" things to sell. I would the the original H&H and never look back. If it ain't broke, don' fix it.


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Wow Bob, you couldn't have picked a better round than the 35Newton to hold up. I would have one in a minute if brass was easy to get like 300WM. The 470 NE, 416 Rigby, 404 Jeffrey, they're still among the first choices for African work.


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I agree with Bob on H&H's. One would be hard pressed to find a ctg. that feeds and cycles slicker than an old H&H, both .300 and .375. And they're not bad performers, either one of them.

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