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On a side note and one thats most important when shooting BH209.

Have you cleaned the flash channel with an 1/8" drill bit to remove the carbon? Heavily fouled flash channels cuts down the amount of hot gasses able to get to the powder.
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Originally Posted by bigblock455
On a side note and one thats most important when shooting BH209.

Have you cleaned the flash channel with an 1/8" drill bit to remove the carbon? Heavily fouled flash channels cuts down the amount of hot gasses able to get to the powder.
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I had not cleaned it out like that till last night. I will give it another try this weekend and see if that has any impact on it. There was a bit of carbon in there but not as bad as I expected it to be.


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Originally Posted by wildhobbybobby
There are not a large number of .54 caliber bullets and sabots out there, but for deer hunting the Harvester 54/.452 Crush Rib should work nicely with a .452 bullet of 250-300 grs, and for big, mean stuff in Alaska you could try this:

http://www.harvestermuzzleloading.c...&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=18

I envy you your playground.


Those are the bullets and sabots I initially wanted to shoot out of this rifle but it is next to impossible to find anyone willing to ship them to Alaska via USPS. Everyone wants to ship them via UPS over night or next day air which would be great if I needed them that fast and was willing to pay more in shipping than I was for the bullets. Really annoying but it is all part of living up here.


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And you can use a torch cleaner bit to clean the flash hole.


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Hey bronco, PM me if you'd like to discuss getting some of those bullets via USPS.


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Originally Posted by wildhobbybobby
And you can use a torch cleaner bit to clean the flash hole.


Good idea I didn't think about using one!


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Originally Posted by bigblock455
knights can have issues with bh209. You need the bare primer conversion IMO to be fully successful with bh209.


Not my Knights. I've used discs and BH209 with great success...I don't believe I ever had an issue, they always fire for me.

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Not a lot of expierence here with BH209,but I have a CVA and switched to BH209 for my Colorado elk hunt. I shot the TC Maxi ball and ordered the new breech plug to use with BH209. I have not had any problems with ignition or accuracy out to 100 yards. My maxi balls load tight and I need a starter to load them.

I noticed a couple things on the last posts. One was the bullet was coming out of the barrel after a couple shots, but did not go far. That sounds like the primer and powder are igniting but no back pressure like has been said. Are you pouring powder out of the barrel after the shot? If not then it is burning, just no pressure. Not sure how much a barrel will expand or contract being loaded inside then being taken outside in the cold for a while, but if that's an issue then the bullet being used is close to being to small to begin with. It was also mentioned that if the bullet is hard to load then you must take your gloves off. They should be tight to load each time, even the first time. Another issue is the powder not burning correctly when it has poor ignition will leave a lot of debris or fouling in the barrel making it unreasonably hard to load. It would need to be cleaned each shot if the powder is not burning correctly. BH209 can be shot a lot without cleaning on proper ignitions.
I am going with the loose bullet theory most have mentioned. Load a tight bullet and make certin the ignition system is clear and not fouled from prior poor powder burns.

Good Luck



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sent you a pm. please check.

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Just to clear things up I never loaded my rifle indoors. I always load it outside.

The powerbelts in my opinion are loose fitting since I can load them one handed and do not need a starter like I do with all other bullets I have used.

The BH209 is igniting but not all at once like it should be so it is either a pressure issue or primer issue or a little of both. Going to try a different bullet this weekend and see if that makes a difference as well as try and get my hands on one of the new style breech plugs. Figure the breechplug cost about the same as two or three boxes of bullets so its a wash either way.


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Let me know if you want to try some other bullets, my folks live close to a few shops that carry lots of muzzleloader supplies. I haven't had any ignition issues with my Knight Disc. Mine is a .50 and I use 777 powder and muzzleloader primers with sabots and 240gr hollow point pistol bullets.

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Originally Posted by broncoformudv
The powerbelts in my opinion are loose fitting since I can load them one handed and do not need a starter like I do with all other bullets I have used.


I think you just found your problem and answered your own question.

If you have any all lead bullets, slug your bore when it is warm from a couple or few shots, or just slug it indoors with a room temperature or warmed barrel. Measure the bullet and report back.

It sounds to me that a nipple or a breech plug is likely to be a waste of time and money solving the insistent use of fixed size Powerbelts if your bore is slightly oversized. Too bad they don't make Thor's in 54 caliber as that would probably solve the issue without throwing too much money at the rifle for reaping no gains. They would send a few different diameter bullets and you'd pick the right one for your rifle.

I like the crush rib sabot/bullet combo idea best above but you are apparently trying to make your gun work with your choice of bullet / powder combo instead of the other way around. Again, I think your throwing good money at something that has a slim chance of working out.

As to your shipping dilemma, do you know anyone in the lower 48 who may be able to pick up or order some sabot and bullet combos who can also repackage into USPS bulk rate boxes to send your way? Relatives? Friends? Or is that also an shipping obstacle?

Edit:
You could try some 45 caliber .452" Hornady bullets (or any other .452" of choice) with these sabots to see if they snug up in your bore better:
http://www.mmpsabots.com/red.html
and:
http://www.harvestermuzzleloading.c...&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=18

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Broncoformudv;

Unfortunately, with a 54 cal your options are limited. As I mentioned in my PM, the Barnes MZs have proven best in accuracy in my Knight 54, howver the only sabot for the true 50 caliber bullets is the MMP purple and they are difficult to load as they are somewhat oversize at .546-7. As was suggested by others, use either the Harvester or MMP sabots sized to accept any of the .451-2 bullets. I suggest the Harvester as the MMPs are only rated to 90 grain charges (see the MMP website). I have tried both and the Harvester sabots held together with 110 grains of BH209. The MMP sabots completely failed with the same charge.

I am convinced, to obtain the maximum efficiency from a 54 cal, a true 50 caliber bullet in the MMP purple is the way to go. Just count on a Hoppes wet patch and two dry patches between shots. I believe this bullet, sabot and swab procedure will go "bang" in all weather conditions.

Hope this info helps.

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Sounds like a breechplug issue to me personally, I don't think the powder is getting enough primer flame to properly ignite, I bet your breechplug is fouled from the 777 to the point of constricting primer flame, plus, your flash channel and flash might be just big enough to ignite BH209 when squeaky clean, but not enough when fouled, it might need to be modified or replaced with an aftermarket replacement if available, just my $.02.

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One thing I would like to add is BH209 doesn't really like a skirted projectiles like Powerbelts. They do not seal tight enough to adequately ignite the power....IMHO

I've tried them many times and the inconsistency was a dead ringer for me at least, besides even BH209's sight talks about compression and the seal needing to be good.

"A muzzleloader is different than a cartridge gun, but many of the principles relative to the propellant are the same. The bullet is seated in the cartridge to create the pressure necessary to propel the bullet. A bullet in a muzzleloader needs to be compressed against the powder. The base of the bullet, or sabot needs to expand to hold the building pressure which propels the bullet. Imagine you placed a bullet 1 inch ahead of the case in a cartridge gun. The bullet most likely would not exit the barrel. This same principle works in a muzzleloader. Loose fitting bullets, like the typical Powerbelts, may be convenient to load, but lack sufficient compression to assure consistent ignition or accuracy.

Because there are no standards in muzzleloading barrels, the diameters vary between all manufacturers and at times within the same manufacturer. A Powerbelt may fit nicely in one and slide to the bottom of another. Just the simple act of carrying your gun in the field may allow the bullet to slide forward and when compression of the powder is lost the result is a misfire or poor accuracy.

We recommend a quality tight fitting sabot for the most consistent accuracy and ignition."


http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/ignition-guidelines/

With that being said I would first change out to a sabot projectile and I would get a tight fitting sabot at that. Now if the OP is loading in normal temp, then takes it out to a extreme low temp I would suggest that the light plastic skirt is getting very hard and therefore there is a possibility that the skirt is not sealing properly and/or it is not being able to keep consistent compression on the powder. Either way I not use Powerbelts with BH209.

Now I don't know what your barrel is sized at being a 54 cal, and if I were you I would take it to a good machinist and have it measured, and go from that measurement to a sabot that will seat correctly. With more fascia on the bullet/sabot pushing out to the barrel instead of just a skirted Powerbelt, well I think it will solve your issues.

Also my gun likes the CCI 209M primer better over the Federal 209A. Just an idea.

Also use a bare 209 breech plug.

My 50 cal Knight (Green Mountain Barrel) likes oversized .452 bullets with looser 50 cal Harvester Black Crush Rib sabots. Maybe try something similar?


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Many of th solid lead conicals will vary in diameter. Some of the molds for casting your own bullets will vary and can be measured to find the best one for your barrel size. TC maxi balls in a 54cal weighs in around 405 grains I think. It is flat based and is an awesome bullet.


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My thors load with thumb pressure, light seating projectiles are fine IF your ignition set up is sealed greatly.

Even maxiballs did great with bh209

Now if its a knight and the shooter is using the green gas check powerbelts yes, those are not for knight, you'd want the Platinum or the Aerolite that has a larger .507" base for the larger bore guns.

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I know when I shot the green gas check powerbelts (hollow point 295 Grain) well they didn't shoot worth a crap out of my Knight, or my CVA. I tried many variations of powder but both rifles didn't like them period. Still have about 1 or 2 packs lingering around.

I know when I finish setting my CVA up for conicals (needed for the northwest) I will not be using powerbelts. I think I will go to Hornady great plains first off.


Big<---- Knight has smaller bores, not larger ones. Around .501 - .502 , So I wonder how they would fit being .507 ????


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All powerbelts are .499" gas check on the copper/green powerbelts are .502 the Platinum and areolite gas check is .507"

Knights will shoot best with the platinum or aerolite due to the larger gas check.

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What about the CVA Bergara barrel?

I believe mine is .504 so I would assume the Areolite would be a good choice with the 120 grains BH209 I'm using, or a step down to 110 grains?


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