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#7168289 - 12/11/12 thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin
stevenautique Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 1047
Loc: MN
I am considering a new Marlin in 45-70 or 450 Marlin. It appears they are similar ballistically. Anyone have experience with the 450 Marlin? I am a loader so factory loads isn't a concern for me. BuT what about the load itself. Is brass going to be available?

Thanks in advance

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#7168401 - 12/11/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: stevenautique]
Dog_Hunter Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 4734
Loc: Wyoming's anal orifice
I've got the short barreled guide gun with a Leupy 1-4X20mm...it's a hammer on both ends. I have killed a shiras moose and a white-tail doe with it. I haven't loaded for it, so I can't comment on brass availability. I shoot the 325 grain leveroution loads. It's actually pretty accurate if you can handle the recoil.

I like it, but want to play with it more before I try shots beyond 150-200 yards.


Edited by Dog_Hunter (12/11/12)
_________________________
"Its not the dress that makes you look fat, its the fat that makes you look fat"---Al Bundy

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#7168557 - 12/11/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Dog_Hunter]
stevenautique Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 1047
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Dog_Hunter
I've got the short barreled guide gun with a Leupy 1-4X20mm...it's a hammer on both ends. I have killed a shiras moose and a white-tail doe with it. I haven't loaded for it, so I can't comment on brass availability. I shoot the 325 grain leveroution loads. It's actually pretty accurate if you can handle the recoil.

I like it, but want to play with it more before I try shots beyond 150-200 yards.


IM intrigued with its uniqueness but wondering if i should just stay with the 45-70

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#7168623 - 12/11/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: stevenautique]
Vic_in_Va Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 5463
Probably so, the brass (if you handload) is not as available as .45-70, and loaded ammo can be hard to find.

I would like to see the .450 hang on. If anything, the round makes a good short-action thumper in a bolt rifle, and if the donor rifle is a short-mag, the conversion is pretty straight-forward.

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#7176842 - 12/13/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Vic_in_Va]
Elkmen Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 879
I stayed with the 70, when I bought mine last year. There is really no difference in the performance. I think however that the life of the 450 will be shorter than that of the 70.

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#7179746 - 12/14/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Elkmen]
tikkanut Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 5219
Loc: Rural Podunk Utah....
Buy 200 pcs of 450 brass...set of dies...rifle too of course

.458 boolits are everywhere...Forget about any issues...

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#7181216 - 12/14/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: tikkanut]
obie458 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 179
In most factory loads the 450 holds a big advantage over the 45-70 because of pressure limitations on the 45-70. However this low pressure limitation can disregarded in modern marlin rifles. As a hand loader the 40-70 can actually be loaded to slightly higher velocities than the 450 due to a slight capacity advantage. This is why in premium ammunition such as buffilo bore the 45-70 is slightly faster than the 450.

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#7181659 - 12/14/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: obie458]
Fischer Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 477
Loc: Lithia - Central Florida
What obie said. Especially if you handload, the 45-70 would be a better choice.

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#7204125 - 12/19/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Fischer]
Fotis Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 8744
Loc: Cheyenne, Wy
45-70
_________________________


"Weatherby was too long so I nicknamed it "Bee""

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#7204167 - 12/19/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Fotis]
Mr_Saw Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 442
Loc: Upstate NY
When I wanted my Guide Gun the shop had both available and I bought the .450 because no one else had one and I wanted something different. I would do it again for the same reason regardless of which is "better".
_________________________
NRA Endowment Member, Life since 1978

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#7217200 - 12/23/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Mr_Saw]
DeerSkinner Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 242
Loc: South CA.
I just purchased a BLR in 450. I know I can load it hotter than any Marlin, so I get performance beyond what is possible with an old 45-70. A BLR can handle 300 and 338 win mags, so this is doable and safe.
_________________________
Rick

Life is not a spectator sport.




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#7228085 - 12/26/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Mr_Saw]
kingstrider Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 273
Loc: Dentist for the United States ...
At one point I had a 450MXLR in addition to a 1895GS and 1895SDT. The 450 was nice but superfluous to the two 45-70s so I sold it. Probably the biggest thing going for the 45-70 is components are more readily available.

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#7231045 - 12/27/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: kingstrider]
colodog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 2610
Loc: North of Denver
I doubt Bambi would be able to tell which headstamp was on the brass that was fired the bullet, 450M or 45-70, although the 45-70 has slightly larger case capacity.
450M brass is still only made by Hornady...
If I wanted the mostest from either cartridge I'd get a Ruger #1, not made in 450M so it would be 45-70...
Which will be here in 20-50 years, 45-70!
_________________________
Our country is now tacking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to Destruction, to wit;
by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, It's necessary consequence.
Thomas Jefferson

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#7236444 - 12/28/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: colodog]
340mag Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 2340
Ive found my 450 marlin caliber BLR absolutely loves 50 grains of IMR3031 under a 405 remington bullet with a 215 fed primer, Im not 100% sure of velocity but its a hard hitting load thats producing 1" hundred yard groups off the bench consistently
http://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm
450 marlin handloads.

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) 250 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 57.0 2,288
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 60.0 1,970
Remarks: 1.95 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 62.0 2,091
Remarks: 1.80 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 51.5 1,751
Remarks: 2.25 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 53.0 1,869
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 54.0 1,990
Remarks: 1.90 group
300 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 50.0 1,982
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon H-4198 48.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.60 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 59.0 1,770
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 61.0 1,821
Remarks: 1.70 group
350 Kodiak FP IMR IMR-3031 56.0 1,827
Remarks: 1.55 group
350 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-335 60.0 1,872
Remarks: 1.20 group
400 Speer FN Hodgdon H-4895 56.0 1,773
Remarks: 1.75 group
405 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-322 52.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.50 group
405 Magma cast IMR IMR-4198 32.0 1,332
Remarks: 2.00 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 48.0 1,875
Remarks: 1.80 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 50.0 1,960
Remarks: 1.45 group

300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 38.7 1,928
Remarks: start chg
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 43.0 2,096
Remarks: max chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.0 1,716
Remarks: start chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 40.0 1,865
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.2 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 48.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 52.2 2,198
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 58.0 2,389
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 54.9 2,217
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 61.0 2,410
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 58.1 2,226
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 64.5 2,420
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 60.3 2,214
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 67.0 2,407
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 59.4 2,001
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 66.0 2,175
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 56.7 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 63.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 39.4 1,813
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.8 1,971
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 46.1 1,919
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 51.2 2,086
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 50.0 2,030
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 55.5 2,207
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 55.8 2,067
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 62.0 2,247
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 55.8 2,010
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 62.0 2,185
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 54.9 1,892
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 61.0 2,057
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 55.8 1,982
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 62.0 2,154
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 55.8 1,719
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 62.0 1,869
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.9 1,688
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 41.0 1,835
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 41.4 1,732
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 46.0 1,883
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 47.3 1,883
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 52.5 2,047
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 49.9 1,877
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 55.4 2,040
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 54.0 1,909
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 60.0 2,075
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 49.5 1,689
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 55.0 1,836
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 53.1 1,875
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 59.0 2,038
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 53.1 1,620
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 59.0 1,761
Remarks: max chg; compressed load


300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-3031 52.5 1,870
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-4198 44.2 2,000
Remarks: 39,000 psi
300 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-3031 57.0 2,100
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-3031 56.0 2,030
Remarks: 38,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-4198 45.0 2,050
Remarks: 40,000 psi
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-3031 50.8 1,860
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-4198 40.0 1,820
Remarks: 40,000 psi


Edited by 340mag (12/28/12)

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#7252358 - 01/01/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: 340mag]
yar Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 2924
Loc: Southeastern Pa
Modernized 45/70, just a little harder to find than 45/70 of the shelf.

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#7258498 - 01/02/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Mr_Saw]
temmi Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 10068
Loc: Texas
I have a 450M and I would buy it again

It is everything I hoped for

On the downside you should handload or your ammo options are limited.

I would and did get a 450M

Snake
_________________________
That which does not kill us makes us stronger

Friedrich Nietzsche

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#7274074 - 01/06/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: temmi]
GuideGun Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Maine
What is wrong with the .45-70? It will kill animals just as dead as the .450 marlin will, and probably a little cheaper at that. The brass and reloading supplies for the .45-70 are readily available and can be found almost anywhere, that is a plus for sure. Are the gains from the .450 over the .45-70 really worth the extra hassle and price? A hot loaded .45-70 will come close, if not match .450 performance....To me it doesn't make any sense to get a .450 over the .45-70. The gains are minimal. Brass availability might be an issue with the .450 down the road.


Edited by GuideGun (01/06/13)
_________________________
-Matt



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#7275026 - 01/06/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: GuideGun]
Vic_in_Va Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 5463
Actually, the .45-70 can match the .450 performance levels, it has slightly more case capacity.

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#7276889 - 01/06/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Vic_in_Va]
Twinkletoes Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Prince of Wales Is., Ak
Before I ordered my XLR, I did give the .450 considerable thot.
I ended up with the same thots that GG stated, will I be able to buy brass 10 years from now? I did buy the XLR in .45-70.
Love the gun, and I probably woulda loved it just as well if it had been a .450, but I honestly feel that the .45-70 will be around for nother 125 years, and I don't believe that we can say the same for the .450.
Marlin has always made a fine firearm, however, thier specific designed cartridges have not had good record to success.

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#7373515 - 01/28/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: GuideGun]
The_Troll Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/13
Posts: 75
Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska
I have both, a BLR .450 and a few .45-70's. I handload and shoot 400 grn cast paper patched bullets. Moose and little bears do not stand a chance. I keep the range to 200 yds and under. If there is a difference between the two cartridges i cannot tell.

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#7401580 - 02/04/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: The_Troll]
longbarrel Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 29
I have two .45-70s. I'd seriously consider a .450 if I found one but would get a lifetime supply of brass at the same time. I handload exclusively so either cartridge would work fine for me.

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#7401813 - 02/04/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: longbarrel]
The_Troll Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/13
Posts: 75
Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska
Brass seems to last a long time with my reloads using cast bullets. It is a shame that the belt is not in the same location as the other belted magnums. It would make for a good supply of cheep brass. I suppose that a rifle could be chambered in the .458 American 2" to solve this issue.

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#7410170 - 02/06/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: GuideGun]
temmi Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 10068
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: GuideGun
What is wrong with the .45-70? It will kill animals just as dead as the .450 marlin will, and probably a little cheaper at that. The brass and reloading supplies for the .45-70 are readily available and can be found almost anywhere, that is a plus for sure. Are the gains from the .450 over the .45-70 really worth the extra hassle and price? A hot loaded .45-70 will come close, if not match .450 performance....To me it doesn't make any sense to get a .450 over the .45-70. The gains are minimal. Brass availability might be an issue with the .450 down the road.


Really nothing is wrong with a 45/70 in the right platform.

That said the 450M is everything a hot 45/70 wants to be in every 450M rifle.

It is a cool round which is not to say a 45/70 is not
_________________________
That which does not kill us makes us stronger

Friedrich Nietzsche

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#7413162 - 02/07/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: temmi]
JFE Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 49
Loc: Victoria, Australia
There are some minor but important differences between Marlins in 45/70 and 450M. The 450 barrels and receivers feature Vee threads which essentially allow for greater material in the receiver area between the bottom of the chamber and the top of the magazine tube. Also as the belted 450 case is smaller in diameter than the rimmed 45/70 case, a smaller mag tube is used, again allowing more steel in a critical area where 45/70's sometimes fail. If you examine any of the photos where Marlin 45/70's have failed it is generally this area that lets go.

Having said that, a 45/70 loaded to around 30k pressures still provides plenty of performance and a considerable margin of safety. Besides, a 400 gr pill at 1800-1900 fps would take care of most animals roaming the earth.

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