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#7232366 - 12/27/12 Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates?
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12630
Loc: NW Louisiana
Post pertains to Kimbers, ULA/Nula, 'Mountain rifle contour' barrels, or similar.

Curious since we have folks using them in Alaska and the Northwest, vs other areas where temps often a good bit lower.

Knowing barrel heat makes fliers, just curious if lightweight barrels shoot more consistently in these colder areas?

I would expect first shot cold bore POI to be similar.
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#7232386 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
pahick Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3682
Loc: 7th valley by the red oak grov...
I dont think it would matter. Im not going to heat either up enough in a typical hunting situation to notice a difference. But then again im not hunting prairie dogs and such where you shoot tons of ammo.

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#7232629 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
rattler Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 28085
Loc: NE Montana
Originally Posted By: 65BR
Post pertains to Kimbers, ULA/Nula, 'Mountain rifle contour' barrels, or similar.

Curious since we have folks using them in Alaska and the Northwest, vs other areas where temps often a good bit lower.

Knowing barrel heat makes fliers, just curious if lightweight barrels shoot more consistently in these colder areas?

I would expect first shot cold bore POI to be similar.






as the other guy said, doesnt matter, if yah fire a normal string the barrel heats up just the same.....yeah it can cool down faster but it will get to just about the same temp if your not waiting much between shots....
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#7232737 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
BobinNH Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 30533
I don't think so....light barrels can walk from heat but some walk less than others.Especially light barrels not properly stress relieved.

At least that's my observation.
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#7232804 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: BobinNH]
Klikitarik Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13073
Loc: Alaska - N63, W162
It's kind of hard to say. I don't have one of the named specimens, my light barrelled rifle being a M700 Mountain. My thoughts are these: at cold temps I am content with having the snow, or most of it anyway, cleared from the scope lenses. Then I try to control my breathing, not to avoid shot-muffing so much as to prevent fogging the objective. (There's a follow-through issue here too.) Then, assuming multiple shots are needed, I am now shooting at a moving target, so any MOA shooting is more than likely to be a moot point anyway. But you can often see your misses as they often land and spray in snow, and correct from there if need be.

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#7232908 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: Klikitarik]
battue Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11059
Loc: outside the burgh
This same thought was rambling around in my head and for sometime now my opinion has been for some reason I have found them more consistent in cold weather. Right or wrong, I'm not sure. So for what it's worth, 30F out this AM and this is the best overall group this young rifle has shot and the first time it has been shot with temps in the low 30's.

.243W Montana. First three shots out of a cold clean barrel went into an inch cloverleaf. Shot the .22-250 for two strings and then went back to the .243W.

Six shots total-third was the screw-up, but it looked good-load, shoot, load, shoot because things seemed to be going good. Still only an inch group, however Deer workup with the Barnes 80gr TTSX is done I'm thinking.





Edited by battue (12/27/12)
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#7232913 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: Klikitarik]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12630
Loc: NW Louisiana
Klik - no doubt, the FIRST shot is often the best for success, and if not made, no matter why, follow up shots are often on running game.

That said, there were a few times in my hunting career that I had to shoot more than once for various reasons, inc. deflected bullets, etc. As to snow, none here - Lol.

I was just curious if temperature affected various owners accuracy results, as some are good, some great, and some, not so much. I know this is assuming equally built guns of the same model, quality ammo, scope, conditions, and shooter skill.

Thanks guys.
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#7232941 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12630
Loc: NW Louisiana
Battue, I'd say 'let the good times roll' wink You have a deer killer! TTSX is bad juju as you know. Good hunting! BTW, as you know, a smaller bore of the same OD barrel, means stiffer, and slower to heat up...so a 243 in the same contour POTENTIALLY is more prone to shoot w/more precision than say a 338.
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#7233062 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
battue Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11059
Loc: outside the burgh
Forgot to add the Nula .22-250 could essentially care less what the ambient temp is. It just keeps pumping out .75in or better groups for the most part.
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#7233452 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: battue]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36580
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
That's common with NULA's of all barrel weights.

In fact they normally shoot just as accurately with the barrel screaming hot as with it cold, and to the same point of impact as well. That's one reason I often use my NULA .30-06 as a scope-test rifle: I can keep shooting without letting the barrel cool down, getting results a LOT more quickly than if I had to cool the barrel down between shots or groups.

The same applies to the one Forbes Rifle I've tested as well.
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"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#7233486 - 12/27/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 73040
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
A good barrel, regardless of weight, don't cause fliers when it heats up. I've had plenty that I could cook an egg on that shot just as well.
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#7234086 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: battue]
shortactionsmoker Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 4631
Loc: Western Kentucky
Originally Posted By: battue
This same thought was rambling around in my head and for sometime now my opinion has been for some reason I have found them more consistent in cold weather. Right or wrong, I'm not sure. So for what it's worth, 30F out this AM and this is the best overall group this young rifle has shot and the first time it has been shot with temps in the low 30's.

.243W Montana. First three shots out of a cold clean barrel went into an inch cloverleaf. Shot the .22-250 for two strings and then went back to the .243W.

Six shots total-third was the screw-up, but it looked good-load, shoot, load, shoot because things seemed to be going good. Still only an inch group, however Deer workup with the Barnes 80gr TTSX is done I'm thinking.





Looks like you have it up and running!
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#7234103 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: Steelhead]
BobinNH Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 30533
Originally Posted By: Steelhead
A good barrel, regardless of weight, don't cause fliers when it heats up. I've had plenty that I could cook an egg on that shot just as well.


As usual, Scott cuts right to it... wink

I agree.

Battue the 243 looks like it will work fine!
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#7234104 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: Steelhead]
scenarshooter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 3813
Loc: Montana......NE Corner..
Originally Posted By: Steelhead
A good barrel, regardless of weight, don't cause fliers when it heats up. I've had plenty that I could cook an egg on that shot just as well.


^^^^
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#7234333 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: shortactionsmoker]
battue Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11059
Loc: outside the burgh
Originally Posted By: shortactionsmoker

Looks like you have it up and running!




I think it just had to become confident that it finally found a home were it was going to stay awhile. grin

Addition: No light rifle mojo incantations required other than making sure it was level in the bags and didn't jump around. Light hold on the forearm.


Edited by battue (12/28/12)
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#7236265 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: battue]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12630
Loc: NW Louisiana
So what makes a ULA/NULA not open up as they heat up?

What makes a rifle more accurate for 3 than 5 shot groups, if heat is not at play, what is?
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#7236291 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
battue Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11059
Loc: outside the burgh
I don't know. Only thing I can "guess" is that with his tight FLB, the barrel and stock are essentially one piece and are more of a stable unit than when the barrel is FF and can more easily move.

JB can perhaps give a more accurate answer.
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#7236301 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: 65BR]
mathman Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 22453
Originally Posted By: 65BR
What makes a rifle more accurate for 3 than 5 shot groups, if heat is not at play, what is?


Statistics.

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#7236344 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: battue]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36580
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
battue,

The tight, stiff forend is one factor, but as other people have stated a good barrel doesn't shoot less accurately or change POI when it's hot. Douglas makes good barrels, as do a number of other companies. Many factory barrels are also good, but some aren't.
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"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#7236356 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: mathman]
Jordan Smith Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 7860
Loc: Calgary, AB, Canada
Originally Posted By: mathman
Originally Posted By: 65BR
What makes a rifle more accurate for 3 than 5 shot groups, if heat is not at play, what is?


Statistics.


Thank you.
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#7236369 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: mathman]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36580
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
mathman has hit it on the nose.

Very few rifles are accurate enough to group 5 shots as tightly as 3 shots. Even 5-shot groups from benchrest rifles will "open up" a little over 3-shot groups, purely because of the laws of chance.

If you shoot enough shots in a group, the group's diameter will eventually include just about every shot. This is why I test prairie dog rifles with 10-shot groups. Even though the diameter of a 10-shot group doesn't impress many of today's shooters (3/4" is really good) it tells a hell of a lot more about a rifle's accuracy than a 3-shot or even 5-shot group, especially with a hot barrel. And hot barrels are the norm in PD shooting.

One reason 3-shot groups are so popular these days is the chance for a tiny group is so much greater with fewer shots. Then when we shoot one of those semi-accidental one-hole 3-shot groups with our factory rifle we can post it on the Campfire.

This doesn't mean some rifles won't consistently group 3 shots with all the bullet holes touching. Many will, even some factory rifles. I even own a Ruger No. 1 .25-06 that will do it with 75-grain Hornady V-Maxes. But if I shoot a 5-shot group with the same load it's bigger, even if I let the barrel cool down, due to statistical probability.
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"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#7236373 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: Jordan Smith]
Tejano Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Out Yonder
Another factor is many of us load hot. If it is cold enough to loose 20-50 fps it may just put you into an acuracy node you arent seeing in hot weather.
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#7236377 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: mathman]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
So, if it's just stats then a 5 shot group shot extrememly slowly with plenty of cool down time will be on average be the same as a 5 shotter shot thru a barrel hot enough for frying eggs right?

Dober
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#7236415 - 12/28/12 Re: Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates? [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
mathman Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 22453
Originally Posted By: Mark R Dobrenski
So, if it's just stats then a 5 shot group shot extrememly slowly with plenty of cool down time will be on average be the same as a 5 shotter shot thru a barrel hot enough for frying eggs right?

Dober


No, that's not what I stated or even implied. The poster hypothesized "if heat is not at play" so I answered accordingly. Given a probability distribution, if you take more samples of it you're more likely to see values farther away from its mean.

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