Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Proposed bill would allow school administrators, teachers to carry guns

Allowing teachers to become armed guards is not the solution. I teach security guards to shoot & also work as an armed guard. Its a typical example of something that appears simple & is not. The average female teacher is not interested in guns or becoming proficient with firearms. If the gun is concealed where is the gun concealed. This is even more difficult with female teachers. Does the armed teacher have the skill & desire to put down an armed shooter? There are some on the Fire that think they are prepared to put them selves in harms way that at the moment of truth would fail. How many teachers are willing to become proficient & stay proficient with a firearm. Teachers need to focus on educating children not becoming armed guards.

Well, at any rate, it certainly behooves you and your ilk to promote and maintain said impression. Your strategy, when you cannot defeat a man's argument, is to attack the man himself. Old as the hills, and well practiced among the left at least since Stalin.

And that's the part I left out above.

There's enough way too much "us vs them" attitude and separation and elitism that inevitably arises with these things as it is.

The age old "divide and conquer" MO is another of life's and history's lessons that don't seem to soak in as should. Someone involved is going to start believing himself more special than everyone else and more deserving of power and authority and his head swells and his group of followers follow and yada yada yada.
That chit gets old.
I'd think people would tire of it, see through it, and strive to avoid it.

Well said.

So do we pay these teachers another salary? After all they're educaters and security guards right? Or do we just put trained professionals in the schools and let the teachers focus on what they're suppose to, education, NOT security.

I'd personally would rather have a professional trained security personel to protect my kid in the advent of a school shooting.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

Nah, you're the cutey. I don't see where TRH has ever taken a shot at you, but you cheap shot him when it has nothing to do with the topic. I didn't really single you out because of that, but it's as good a reason as any to bitchslap an undercover assclown. Where does Ron Paul come into this?

In all sincerity, you better get your ducks in a row and figure out whether you're down with your homey Obama or you want to keep your guns. As my amigo Archerhunter says, the simplest solution is generally the best. That's why it is unlikely to ever get done since the government loves both complications and efficiency.

Allowing teachers (those willing to receive the extra certification) to carry concealed while on the job isn't turning them into security guards anymore than I'm turned into a cop because I ordinarily go about with a concealed sidearm. An armed society was meant to be the norm, not the exclusive domain of special agents of state.

Exactly what, exactly?

Nobody is looking to force-feed teachers firearms. If John or Judy Smith are scared of the bad weapons, I sure as hell don't want them anywhere near them.

What many are looking for, myself included, is for everyone to stay the hell out of the way of those who are competent and willing to carry. Remove anything resembling the GFSA and let those who can carry do so.

I am well aware that there are many "armed professionals" who have not always been "gun guys". In this line of work, they are forced to be at least proficient but there's always that itch in the back of my skull when I'm around one. Luckily, I don't have any of "them" in the patrol ranks of my agency.

If we attempt to force anyone in the teaching profession, they likely wouldn't even meet a basic proficiency as they want nothing to do with it. Leave those folks alone and let them continue on as they are.

George

Exactly!

Keep up that haughty arrogance schtick and before you know it you will have painted yourself into the time for another screen name change corner....

The idea that a small % of educators would have both the aptitude and desire to function well in such a role has merit.... The possibility that someone one with only the very minimal training required to get a concealed carry permit making things much worse is also a concerning possibility...

The bad guys not knowing who might be blended into the school setting fully prepared to end them....... IMO, A priceless force multiplier

First sentence of his post "allowing teacher to become armed gaurds is not the solution"

I'd agree with this because that small % will educate themselfs how to react in a life treating situation,they will become proficant with a firearm...IMO. But unfortunately i think that would be a small % of teachers.

Just like violent crime always drops in shall issue States where only a small % of people actually carry..... Violent crime would drop in schools if only a small % of school personal had proper training in crisis management that included up to the use of lethal force if necessary.....

I'd think ammunition companies would be falling all over themselves to donate training ammo..... Gun makes wanting positive PR the same..... People will the skill set to offer advanced training to school personal who had first volunteered and then been CAREFULLY screened.... Who would not offer their time?

As long as only those with a need to know knew who had that training the psychopaths would think long and hard before targeting another elementary school IMO.

IMO we'll never see a bill passed to "arm teachers" just like we don't arm bank tellers,judges or attorneys in the court house, people that work in federal buildings and so on and so forth. They have trained professionals to provide security. I think that's what we'll see in our schools. HOWEVER,if a teacher "chooses" to be armed and takes the encentive to become trained, as long as they can legally carry a concealed weapon i would not be opposed. But to put the added responsability of security on teachers isn't the solution.

Certainly won't turn out any worse than unarmed. Pretty simple to figure that out. AND you have a good chance it'll turn out better or MUCH better.

BTW never known 2ndwind to be an Obama supporter FWIW.

Of course we have had Ron Paul here and I have personally spoken with the man. Not a bad legislator in many facets, but a fruit loop nonetheless.

I've been offline since 12/22 and only have few minutes to read and comment on this thread, but was asked to do so by a member, so, here we go.

First thing... as you say, Gravestone, the number of teachers who will seek training and meet proficiency standards will be small % of all teachers. This is NOT an argument against doing it, however. When you look at John Lott's More Guns Less Crime you see that only 2-3% of the citizens in any Shall-Issue CCW state elect to do so... but Lott's data show that the effect on crime is significant as criminals are aware that anyone they select as a victim may be a CCW holder.

It's probable that the % of teachers who elect to carry concealed firearms at school would be roughly equivalent to the % we see in the general population. But if school boards tack on higher requirements for them to do this, the number will go down.

It doesn't take a post-doc in math to figure that since most schools have fewer than 100 teachers (rough averages: elementary schools have 20-30, high schools 50-60, last time I looked) this means that if only 1-2 teachers out of every 100 would voluntarily carry guns, this means that only 1 out of 5 elementary schools would have an armed teacher, and only 1 out of every 2 or 3 high schools would have one. This is clearly insufficient. So while it seems to me to be a good idea to allow teachers to carry guns if they choose to meet the proficiency standards, it's not going to be sufficient.

The second option discussed here has been to put armed security guards in every school. This is a really good idea, perhaps the best idea. The problem is that it's gonna be really expensive. So we have to decide who's going to pay for it... will it be the already cash-strapped school boards? Or the cash-strapped police departments? Or some other entity? Whoever it is, guess who's gonna be taking it in the shorts? That's right, us taxpayers. But as Wayne LaPierre pointed out, as a society we put armed guards in our money/banks, our jewellery stores, our stock exchanges, etc, etc, etc, all the things we consider valuable. EXCEPT our children! What lunacy THAT is! So if we truly consider our children the most valuable resource we have in America, we shouldn't balk at paying the money needed for armed security guards.

The third option is to garner community support in the form of volunteerism. I am confident that in almost every rural American community, most suburban communities, and even in many urban communities, there is a small but dedicated cadre of private citizens who are proficient with firearms, possessed of high moral fiber and good character, who would be willing to give their time to serve as "monitors", or some such title, in their local schools. Active and retired cops and firefighters, former military personnel, concerned citizens with advanced firearms training, and so on.

The solution should be some combination of the above 3 choices, in my opinion. What combination of armed teachers, paid security, and armed volunteers is utilized within each school district should be that school district's choice. But federal legislation such as the GFSA needs to be dropped, and further federal legislation is unnecessary... just let the local communities how they want to provide armed security for their kids.

It might be of some value for the feds to pass a law requiring school districts to provide armed security on all school campuses and on all school activities, and open up the courts so that schools that fail to do so adequately are subject to tort remedies. But other than that, I don't think the feds should do a gawddamn thing.

Volunteerism? If they aren't eager enough to volunteer they really have no interest in protecting anything. Cowboy up or find other work.

Public schools pay stipends as incentives to teachers who will work as coaches for the sports teams after school. I see no reason why a similar stipend could not be offered to teachers who are willing to receive training and agree to carry concealed on a semester by semester basis.