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A little late to the fire on this one but my form is similar to Barry Wensel - split finger, middle finger on tooth behind eye tooth, slight natural cant, and FOCUS on single point. When it feels right, it goes. If I start seeing the arrow, I screw up. Shooting golf balls or tennis balls in the yard is awesome practice as it stumpin'.
Byron Ferguson's "Become the arrow" is a good read. Masters of the barebow are good DVD's to see other's form. Paul Brunner had a video out with some form info also but I cannot recall the title.
This years buck:
[Linked Image]
My 'tips:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

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Yep. Nose slap too. I make sure I shave regularly as we'll to avoid chaff from pulling out whiskers.


Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Ghostinthemachine, I feel the need to call BS on your posts berating Anthony Camera. There seems to be a 'new' bunch of experts that think you have to shoot in the IBO to be able to shoot a trad bow. If you have read his book you would realise that most of his shooting was done in the 70's and 80's. He now just shoots and coaches mainly indoors by choice. In the book he plainly states that he hunted, just like most of us. I get so tired of the jealosy shown on Leatherwall and a couple of other trad sites I want to puke. Just because the guy took the time to organize and explain trad archery and put it in a book and they did not. These jokers say that Tony came up with these ideas and methods of how to shoot, in reality (if they would read the book before bashing it) they would soon learn that he is using methods as old as anyone can remember. He's not taking credit for the methods taught, just orgaized them so they are in one place and easy to understand. Until any of these 'experts' produce a book - "Shooting the Stickbow" is the gold standard. FWIW I have read Asbells books as well as Ferguson's and many others, none are anywere near as informative and complete when it comes to shooting and tuning traditional gear.


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Originally Posted by brinky72
Yep. Nose slap too. I make sure I shave regularly as we'll to avoid chaff from pulling out whiskers.


laugh, Thanks Brink, i'll remember that one too.

Gunner


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Originally Posted by centershot
Ghostinthemachine, I feel the need to call BS on your posts berating Anthony Camera. There seems to be a 'new' bunch of experts that think you have to shoot in the IBO to be able to shoot a trad bow. If you have read his book you would realise that most of his shooting was done in the 70's and 80's. He now just shoots and coaches mainly indoors by choice. In the book he plainly states that he hunted, just like most of us. I get so tired of the jealosy shown on Leatherwall and a couple of other trad sites I want to puke. Just because the guy took the time to organize and explain trad archery and put it in a book and they did not. These jokers say that Tony came up with these ideas and methods of how to shoot, in reality (if they would read the book before bashing it) they would soon learn that he is using methods as old as anyone can remember. He's not taking credit for the methods taught, just orgaized them so they are in one place and easy to understand. Until any of these 'experts' produce a book - "Shooting the Stickbow" is the gold standard. FWIW I have read Asbells books as well as Ferguson's and many others, none are anywere near as informative and complete when it comes to shooting and tuning traditional gear.


That's fine.

My posts stand and I won't even go back to look at what I wrote.. He hasn't hunted since the early 70s and only went out a couple of times back then. He 'coaches' people supposedly, and it's STRICTLY 20 yard NFAA rounds with extremely lightweight bows. He's never won a single thing in archery, that's simply a fact. I do like his info on tuning, mainly because I use AL arrows, just like he does.

If you like the book, that's fine. But people need to know some of the background of ANY self-proclaimed internet guru. That was my basic point.

Sorry if I ruffled some feathers. Tact aint one of my strongsuits.

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Here's a video that was on Bowsite a week ago. This shows why I think it's important to take advice from hunting archers. Viper would scoff at this technique, even mock and ridicule it. The result? A perfect shot on a giant buck.


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In just your last post you have contradicted your own comments. First you say he never hunted, now you say he only hunted a couple of times, book said he hunted quite a bit in his youth - I think you need to re-read the book.........do keep in mind it is a book on how to shoot a traditional bow using classic form. He very plainly states that varying from the basic form is fine, but it is wise to first learn to shoot in the most simple and repeatable manor. Do you disagree with that? How about I email this to viper and let him comment instead of you trying to put words in his mouth? There are absolutley some haters on Leatherwall and Tradgang - many of which I have ask if they have even read the book they so detest, most have not. I have even offered to puchase the book from them if they would read it and give it an objective look and still did not like it - no takers. Over and over they state that he has not won 3D's or this or that - Who cares? They are probably lucky he does not - with consistant form he would undoubtable whip most of them. He has modestly stated that he has shot AA Scores on the NFAA 300 round. Do you know what that amounts to? 23.3 points per 5 arrow end or a 3 1/2" group for 60 arrows at 20 yards - no hack can do that. If you want a book on Bowhunting, that is not the one. If you want a book on how to shoot and tune trad bows - that is by far the best I have seen.

BTW, that is a great video and a very nice buck. A 10-15 yard shot is really not a big deal though and that is where the 'Bowhunter Only' mentality gets crossed up with the book. Back up to 40 or 50 yards shooting with a humpped over, inconsistant cant and inconsistant draw length and you'll need all the black magic you can muster.

So why this hate for a guy you don't even know?

Last edited by centershot; 01/03/13.

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Like everything, "If it works for you, use it." I don't mock or ridicule anyones' technique if it works or even if it doesn't. Anyone that states that they or their method is the one and only way to do things is a moron and is setting themselves up for failure. I'm no expert on shooting bow trad or otherwise. I've been hunting a while now with a recurve and use what has proven effective for me. Might be odd to others but guess what. I'm the one shooting my deer/bear not anyone else. Experts to me are self important, close minded azzholes. just my two cents.


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Originally Posted by centershot
In just your last post you have contradicted your own comments. First you say he never hunted, now you say he only hunted a couple of times - I think you need to re-read the book.........do keep in mind it is a book on how to shoot a traditional bow using classic form. He very plainly states that varying from the basic form is fine, but it is wise to first learn to shoot in the most simple and repeatable manor. Do you disagree with that? How about I email this to viper and let him comment instead of you trying to put words in his mouth? You have been hanging around on Leatherwall and Tradgang too much.


Viper 'said' he hunted a couple of times in the '70s. I personally don't believe it.

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What make you believe that? And.........hunting is not for everyone. Should that mean that you can not shoot a bow and arrow and enjoy it?

Last edited by centershot; 01/03/13.

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I'm not sure what would be wrong with his technique? I have a rough time shooting from a treestand with either a recurve or longbow. I'm always super conscious of where the lower limb is and have a tendency to shoot over because of it. I end up pulling slightly down on the arrow as I draw it back making it tilt up a wee bit on the shelf causing it to shoot high. Poor form on my part but I always do it trying not to bang up my bow from the lower limb hitting my stand or other stuff. Long story but I hunt on the ground now with more hits than misses vs hunting from a treestand.


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Originally Posted by centershot
What make you believe that? And.........hunting is not for everyone. Should that mean that you can not shoot a bow and arrow and enjoy it?


My dislike of Viper has nothing to do with whether or not he hunts, his book, or his technique. Hell, I like target archery too.

My dislike arises because he is a condescending prima donna that is rude to every poster that has the cajones to disagree with him. I say that after more than a decade's worth of exchanges with the man, and reading his generally pompous and ego driven words.

"Fred Bear basically sucked at shooting a bow", Viper proclaimed. Need I say more?

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He ought to tell that to all the dead head of game that Fred Bear shot. I bet they would disagree.

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Fred Bear pretty much said that of himself in Field Notes. No secret he had target panic and that is why he snap shot. He made reference of his hunting buddy consistantly out shooting him.

Viper is opinionated for sure, based on many people making the same mistakes - over and over. Why not try to short cut the process? Maybe we all need to look in the mirror on the being opinionated.

The problem as I see it is that too many go into any discussion with Viper with a crappy attitude to begin with. An attitude generated long ago by the same jealous people. That stink has rubbed off on a bunch of new guys and now they won't even take the time to help themselves. I have yet to hear anyone that actually read the book state that it is useless and a waste of time.

To have a personality conflict with someone you have never met and have only posted with on the internet is quite sad indeed. It is always hard to get the point across on these forums, I'm quite sure in person these folks would all act differently.

Last edited by centershot; 01/03/13.

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Is Viper even on here anymore? The only viper I found last posted in '07. I'm not looking for a pissing match with anyone and would be the first to ask for advice. In fact that's why I'm asking who and if he's still on here. I could use some advice. My method of bowhunting and shooting was pretty much pick the damn thing up and shoot it. My opinion is only that It's hard to argue with success. You can say Brett Favre was a chitty QB but can't argue the fact of 508 TD's and 71,838 yds. What works for someone is just that. It works.
What book did he write and what's it called? Does he have a website, page, whatever I can go to and read. I see a lot of crap on you tube but take it with a grain of salt. In fact I can't stand you tube except for finding old music. Many a member on here has pissed me off by using you tube as some sort of fact library. That's an entirely different story. So, where can I find Viper or anyone else for bow shooting/ hunting advice. PM if you wish.


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He's on Archertalk in the Trad and FITA forums quite a bit - he also make the rounds on a few others, but that is the main one. His book is called "Shooting the Stickbow" it sells for $20 on Amazon and in any of the retailers like 3 Rivers or Lancasters. He does have a website with the same name. He's a good guy and will give you a straight answer to your shooting questions. He has plenty of haters, but from what I have seen most are just jealous and trying to cut him down to push thier own agendas.....pretty childish really. FWIW I'm not affiliated with him in any way, When I started out I had questions, he gratefully answered them - then I found out about the book, read that and can say that was easily the best thing I have done for my trad shooting. He states right off that a coach is the thing to do, but in my case there was nobody within a 4 hour drive to help, so the book has been awesome. I have read is several times over the past few years and each time there is something new or that I have 'grown' into to help my shooting. Well worth $20 and a few hours, wheather you like him or not personally it is an excellent resource.


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You can find Tony Camera's book in various locations. This is the link to his web page http://www.shootingthestickbow.com I have purchased 3 of his books, "Shooting the Stickbow." Great book with more information packed into one book than the other 60 Archery books and 100's of magazines on the subject of shooting the Stick I have on my bookshelf. I was contemplating writing a book on the subject relative to things not published or that were downright wrong. His take is a broad spectrum on the subject and mirrors what I have learned over a lifetime of shooting. I have found great disagreement with advocates of Asbell, Hill, Schultz, Furgeson, and others that actually come to blows. Basic archery form has been passed down thru some 600 years with many notables along the way. Heavy bows and the adaptation of contending with 70# monsters has gotten us away from the basic form of shooting a bow. I have conversed with Tony and find him knowledgable and a gentleman. Buy his book, please, and you will have at your fingertips the basis for getting what you can from your bow. He covers different techniques and picks apart what is inefficient in the various techniques. I had target panic for 10 years and had to go back and correct some 15 form flaws that had developed from shooting heavy bows and adapting my form to accommodate to the physical end of the equation. Archery is 90% mental once you have the physical end conquered. Before that, you are merely fighting the instrument of your affection. No amount of concentration will help you overcome the crazy battle of getting that arrow off the shelf if you don't have control of the bow. I m still fighting my demons, as my subconscious tries to take over on occasion. TP is a pain to contend with. Good form and a consistent aiming technique is, yes we all aim, vital to your success and enjoyment of flinging arrows. As to his comments on Fred and others, he has an opinion like you. Give him that without your judgement. I am a "Gapstincter", well most of the time.

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You can't tell some people that they aim.I've argued with the true instinctive shooters before.I guess that's why I get my feathers ruffled when I hear certin pharases.

Concerning concentration,an older joker friend of mine once walked up to Byron Furgeson and told him he had bought his book,"Become The Arrow." He said,"You know I layed in the leaves behind my target half a day,and it didn't do me a bit of good."

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Try a clicker for target panic.

I shot bows for 20years and developed a bad habit of string plucking and short draw.

have read all of the trad shooting books and have shot with nationally ranked guys. Find what works for you




Originally Posted by estacado
You can find Tony Camera's book in various locations. This is the link to his web page http://www.shootingthestickbow.com I have purchased 3 of his books, "Shooting the Stickbow." Great book with more information packed into one book than the other 60 Archery books and 100's of magazines on the subject of shooting the Stick I have on my bookshelf. I was contemplating writing a book on the subject relative to things not published or that were downright wrong. His take is a broad spectrum on the subject and mirrors what I have learned over a lifetime of shooting. I have found great disagreement with advocates of Asbell, Hill, Schultz, Furgeson, and others that actually come to blows. Basic archery form has been passed down thru some 600 years with many notables along the way. Heavy bows and the adaptation of contending with 70# monsters has gotten us away from the basic form of shooting a bow. I have conversed with Tony and find him knowledgable and a gentleman. Buy his book, please, and you will have at your fingertips the basis for getting what you can from your bow. He covers different techniques and picks apart what is inefficient in the various techniques. I had target panic for 10 years and had to go back and correct some 15 form flaws that had developed from shooting heavy bows and adapting my form to accommodate to the physical end of the equation. Archery is 90% mental once you have the physical end conquered. Before that, you are merely fighting the instrument of your affection. No amount of concentration will help you overcome the crazy battle of getting that arrow off the shelf if you don't have control of the bow. I m still fighting my demons, as my subconscious tries to take over on occasion. TP is a pain to contend with. Good form and a consistent aiming technique is, yes we all aim, vital to your success and enjoyment of flinging arrows. As to his comments on Fred and others, he has an opinion like you. Give him that without your judgement. I am a "Gapstincter", well most of the time.

Estacado

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