24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,500
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,500
Originally Posted by BCSteve
I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!


I like the thoughts of that! The .450 Marlin case made building short-action thumpers so easy. Though I see you are apparently basing yours on a .458 WinMag case, about the only difference will be the width of the belt, which is of absolutely no consequence.

I honestly think that a bolt rifle is the best use of that case. It overcomes the problems associated with the .45-70 in that type action.

I really have no use for something like that, and I've resisted the urge to build one numerous times, but I really want one.

BP-B2

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,500
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,500
Originally Posted by REMINGTONJIM
Just got a BLR in 450 Marlin - i have a 95G in 45-70 so we shall see ! RJ


The Browning should be able to outpace the Marlin, due to the action strength.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
Originally Posted by Vic_in_Va
Originally Posted by BCSteve
I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!


I like the thoughts of that! The .450 Marlin case made building short-action thumpers so easy. Though I see you are apparently basing yours on a .458 WinMag case, about the only difference will be the width of the belt, which is of absolutely no consequence.

I honestly think that a bolt rifle is the best use of that case. It overcomes the problems associated with the .45-70 in that type action.

I really have no use for something like that, and I've resisted the urge to build one numerous times, but I really want one.


I'm using .300 Win Mag cases. It's going to be a 4.5x2" but cut at 2.1" so I can easily use .450 Marlin dies, Lee case trimmer and Lee FCD.

I really have no use for something like that either but I couldn't resist the urge!

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,500
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,500
OK. Those dies are probably easier to get and cheaper to boot.

I really have no use for my .45-70 either, but I have always wanted one, so I finally did. I do use it, but not to it's potential, though when I go deer hunting I am ready if the nearby Zoo's T-Rex escapes!

That urge has moved to what you are describing, though the longing for Garands got in the way for a short while.

I have fixed that one.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 891
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 891
I've got a couple Marlin 1895 Guide Guns in both 45-70 and 450M. Like them both. Ballistically when compared in the Marlin 1895 actions and keeping within each SAMMI max pressure specification limits (36,000 psi vs 43,500) the Marlin 1895M 450 Marlin is a little ahead. The design difference between the two was mentioned earlier above - "U" vs "V" cut threads between the barrel and receiver as well as more "V" threads per inch. The "V" threads are a little shallower and leaves a few thousands thickness of steel in both the receiver and barrel. While the "V" threads are shallower there are more of them and this provides more surface/contact area between the barrel/receiver and accounts for most of the 1895M's higher max chamber pressure.

The 45-70 case itself does hold a few more grains of powder than the 450M case. The amount varies by the maker of the 45-70 cases as there is only one 450M case manufacture (Hornady) they are all the same. The lower case capacity of the 450M is attributed to slightly thicker case walls and the extra material in the "webbing" area between the case head and case belt area. What this lower case capacity means is that if you use the same powder, charge weigh and bullet in a 45-70 and 405M cartridge, the 450M will build pressure quicker and higher than the 45-70.

As previously mentioned the Winchester BLR lever rifles are rated for similar pressure limits as modern bolt action rifles and their detachable box magazines allow Spitzer point bullets. There is one custom Winchester BLR that I am aware of that has been converted to 416 Ruger for example and shoots sub MOA full house 416 Ruger loads.

The biggest difference that I find between the two rounds in the same Marlin 1895 style action is the 450M round cycles through the actions and pass through the loading gate smoother. The only reason I can come up with is the "rim" on the 45-70 just doesn't function as smoothly as the 450M.

I also have several bolt rifles converted to 45-70 and 450M. Three Siamese Mausers are in 45-70 and one Ruger M77 and one Pre-64 Win 70 in 450M. Hunting hand loads for these bolt rifles are to entry level 458 Win Mag performance.

Wife's Mauser hunting load is a 300gr TTSX (for the 458 SOCOM) at 2300fps and a 325 CEB #13 solid at the same velocity. The solid generates enough muzzle energy (4000+ foot pounds) to be African DG legal.

My 450M hunting loads in the Win 70 and Ruger 77 are 350gr TSX at 2300 fps and the same 325gr CEB #13 solid at 2400fps.

My wife and I have taken our Marlin 1895's and bolt guns to Namibia and taken multiple head of PG with each. I took my 1895M to RSA in 2011 when I took the KNZ PH qualification/certification course. I took lots of extra ammo and let the other course members put a few rounds through it at the range.

The HUGE advantage of the lever guns REALLY stood out during the "charging animal/speed shooting" qualification. In this phase of the shooting qualification targets are set up at 30m, 20m and 10m. The "target" on each was a black rectangle the size of a small cigarette pack. At the "go" the shooter had 20 seconds to free-hand shoot three rounds, one round on each target, starting at the 30m target and working forward. All three shots had to be "in the black" to qualify. We had one opportunity and no "warm up". The purpose was to simulate a "charging" animal.

We lined up with 3 shooters on individual lanes. The rifles were loaded with 3 rounds in the magazine, chambers empty and rifle slung or or carried over the shoulder. On the "go" the shooters un-slung, chambered and started shooting.

I was very surprised that I had completed my third shot while the other two shooters with bolt actions were just chambering/shooting their second shots. The instructor was also very surprised at the speed of the lever gun. When everyone was done he asked if I would do it again and he videoed it - 9 seconds total. I had taken enough extra ammo that allowed the others and the instructor to put 10 rounds each through it. It was a BIG hit. They had all seen pictures of lever guns but that was the first time any of them had a chance to handle and even shoot one.

It comes down to if you hand load or just purchase factory loads and how much you shoot and how much factory ammo you can afford. The original "idea/concept" of the 450M was to be able to offer the non-reloader the ability to step-up to a higher performance level the 45-70 is capable of without risk of guys trying to put those hotter factory loads into old low-preasure Trap door Springfields. The reason they made the "belt" a little different than the 458 Win Mag was to prevent guys from trying to put 458 Win Mag rounds into the Marlin lever action and vice versa... and probably a bit of proprietary marketing/sales.

Personally, I think that if Hornady/Marlin would have come out with the 450M round when all of those Siamese Mauser actions were coming back to the US and being converted to 45-70 (Mid/Late 70's) it would have made the Siamese Mauser 450M conversion the "hot ticket" and would have prompted more than just Steyr to offer a production bolt action in 450M.

In the end, which one is "better".....it's kind of like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg. Get either one you personally "like" for whatever reason you like and if you hand load just be sure to keep your loads within the design specifications of the platform you choose. It will keep you safe and those next to you on the shooting line or PH standing next to you safe as well.

IC B2

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
R
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by BCSteve
I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!


Hey Steve hows the project coming along ? RJ


375 H&H The Real KING of 375 's
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
Actually, I just finished forming some brass this morning. Just waiting for the barrel to come in. Hopefully it will be ready in time for moose season.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
R
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by BCSteve
Actually, I just finished forming some brass this morning. Just waiting for the barrel to come in. Hopefully it will be ready in time for moose season.


Good ! what barrel you using ? brand - ss or cm twist lenght etc ? also whos smithing this project ? Mick ? or Interesting !

Cheers RJ


375 H&H The Real KING of 375 's
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
Stainless Shillen 1:14 twist, going to have it finished a 20". Sean at North Shore Barrels is going to put the pieces together.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
R
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
Have had North Shore do work for you before ?


375 H&H The Real KING of 375 's
IC B3

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
No. I figured I'd give him a try. He's fairly new but he's getting lots of good review.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
518 members (10gaugeman, 1badf350, 1lessdog, 160user, 17CalFan, 007FJ, 47 invisible), 2,540 guests, and 1,138 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,733
Posts18,401,021
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.156s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8529 MB (Peak: 0.9514 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 12:38:33 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS