CLICK HERE for NIKON PROSTAFF 7i LASER RANGEFINDER!
 

Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#7275626 - 01/06/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]
ppine Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 1187
Loc: Nevada
Fellow packers,
The fact that this group proposes to cut corners by using Ralide, plastic buckle together gizmos hints at a much larger problem. Managing pack animals on a long trip requires many other kinds of experience. As an example the stock for the proposed trip is coming from many different places. These animals will likely not have been intoduced before they are tied together and asked to go down the trail. I would give a $100 to see a video of their first day. There will be packs and dunnage strewn for miles, with some animals on their backs in a heap, and some running back to the stock trailers.

Keeping backs from getting sore and keeping weight on a long trip are other examples that take experience. They will encounter rock slides, bears, mountain lions, darkness, blizzards lots of other stuff. Swimming a pack string or jumping logs in the dark with a pack string is not for the uninitiated.

I have been in Texas. My brother lived outside Austin for 20 years and my ex-wife is a UT graduate. Texas boys are good ropers from all that arena time. Some are good with cattle, but they come from flat hot country. A summer wrangling dudes surely has opened their eyes.

They would be well advised to spend some time with some people that know how to pack for a few weeks before embarking on such an ambitious venture. Maybe they can find a packer to go with them for the first week or two.

I am disappointed that more people can't see the contributions made by modern mustangs to the horse world. They are actually a great choice for a trip such as the one being proposed. I just hope that the boys from Texas get some help before they head out.
_________________________
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana

Top
RV 728 BP
CLICK HERE to see SUPERB STEINER OPTICS!
#7276250 - 01/06/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]
saddlesore Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11627
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Ppine. It's not that there there have not been contributions by mustangs,but buying a horse is the cheap part and there are many many breeds of horses that are bred for a particular task in mind that have contributed a lot more.

With a mustang,you have no idea of it's past breeding and the possibility of getting one with Spanish Barb blood lines are slim to none.

That broom tail might have come out of blood lines that were from heavy draft horses, thorobreds, horses that had some genetic deficiency,or just plain rank horses that someone didn't have the moxy to put down when they should have. The stallion that sired any particulr horse,might just have sired that animals damn, 4-5 generations back and every generation in between.

If I were considering such a trip,I would be looking at feet both size and shape, backs, general conformation that would give me a little bit more assurance that that animal would be up to the task and dispositions that I would not have to fight all the time. Just saying that mustangs are all up to the job,just don't cut it. Sure some mustangs will fit the bill, but it's like saying everone should ride a mule and you know that ain't gospel.
_________________________
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

Top
#7279624 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]
ppine Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 1187
Loc: Nevada
Sore,
We all have respect for your opinion. As a mule man, I would point out the similarities of mustangs to long ears.

We can use a dog analogy. I love dogs and currently have 3 purebred herding dogs. One has problems with his hips, and one has a wolverine temperment. My crossbred dogs of similar breeds have had none of these problems. Imagine feral dogs that have to fend for themselves. The weak and specialized dogs get weeded out. Only the strong ones survive to reproduce.

My thinking about mustangs has gone full circle. I am tired of quarter horses with big round feet that flake off
and like to buck for fun. They eat too much and sometimes aren't very nimble in the steep stuff. Being cowy makes up for it some of the time. If you don't like mustangs you have probably never ridden a good one. They are very common around here and are able to compete with other breeds chasing cows, in the backcountry, for endurance riding, trail trials, and for everyday use like feed lots and US Border Patrol.

The last mule I owned that really hurt me cost $5000 and came from far away.


Edited by ppine (01/07/13)
_________________________
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana

Top
#7280166 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]
saddlesore Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11627
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Pine. I think you know what you talk about. The reasons you stated are why I ride mules and I don't buy other peopels troubles. I have raised all mine that I keep myself. Looking back,I have never bought a mature mule that I was completely happy about.

Don't doubt that there are good riding mustangs out there ,but just like the fairy tale,one has to kiss a lot of frogs before finding a prince.Probably true for finding any good riding critter.
_________________________
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

Top
#7280232 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]
ppine Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 1187
Loc: Nevada
Saddlesore,
I like to converse with reasonable people especially when they have experience. I hope you will give a mustang a chance in the future.

To get back on topic, we can all hope the men from Texas get some packing experience before they head out on a 3000 mile journey.
_________________________
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana

Top
#7280383 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]
saddlesore Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11627
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
I'm afraid at my age,I'm past starting any more horses or mules. This last mule I have raised will out last me and I doubt I will be buying any more horses in my life time.
I wish those guys every sucess in thier trip.I'd sure like to go along
_________________________
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

Top
#7280573 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]
Robster Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/02/09
Posts: 757
Loc: Central NY
I applaud the two of you. You had a reasonable debate, stated your position clearly and concisely and did not stoop to the name calling and mud slinging that happens all too often on forums.

I too wish those guys success, and wish I could ride along with them.

Top
#7282170 - 01/08/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Robster]
saddlesore Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11627
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
When you work with mules,you learn humility, patience,you get a sense of humor and you figure out there are animals on this earth that may be smarter than you. You don't best them by beating them on the head and cussing at them. As you age, you figure out that all of this works with other human beings also.
_________________________
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

Top
#7282898 - 01/08/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]
cattle_auctioneer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 77
I would like to agree with Robster, very nice to see on here. I could probably take a few lessons from these guys. Thanks again guys

Top
#7284609 - 01/08/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: cattle_auctioneer]
ppine Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 1187
Loc: Nevada
We learned patience from mules.
About 10 years ago I was having a conversation with my Mom who is still alive at 88. "You have changed" she said. What do you mean exactly" I inquired? "You have more patience and are easier to get along with" she said.

One of the unintended consequences of working with equines, but especailly with mules and donkeys, is that it requires control of the emotions and encourages patience. Most people don't get interested in equines for that reason, but it is a common artifact of the experience. You must learn to talk with body language. You learn to wait. Timing is very important.

If I let my saddle mules sit for more than about a week or 10 days they would invent some way to mess with me. Sometimes they would refuse to get in the trailer. Or they would change sides in a 2 horse stock trailer while going down the highway. Working with equines makes people better humans. I am sure Saddlesore would agree with this sentiment. I always get along with mule people.


Edited by ppine (01/08/13)
_________________________
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana

Top
#7302163 - 01/12/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]
moosemike Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 2917
Loc: PA
People are doing some amazing things with formerly wild mustangs. The Indians did too. A lot of people ignore the evidence of what a mustang can really become because they're stuck in their thinking and don't want evidence to interfere with their beliefs. I guess there are horse lovers and there are "sort of horse lovers" who only love certain breeds and hate others with vitriol.


Edited by moosemike (01/12/13)
_________________________



Top
#7303427 - 01/12/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: moosemike]
Ralphie Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 1696
Loc: NW Wyoming
Originally Posted By: moosemike
I guess there are horse lovers and there are "sort of horse lovers" who only love certain breeds and hate others with vitriol.


I think there is a big difference in philosophy among different groups. I usually see the different groups as those who treat their horses as pets and those who use them for work. There are dang few mustangs working on cattle ranches.

Mustangs have been lifted up by folks who treat horses as pets.

Top
#7306446 - 01/13/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Ralphie]
ppine Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 1187
Loc: Nevada
Ralphie,
On this range, mustangs work for a living. The Great Basin is vast. People work cattle without fences or corrals, and hold rodear. It is rough country with sparse water on it and mustangs can get around in it. We have places like the Spanish Ranch with few roads and 40-60 mile circles. Horses get ridden only once a week with a lot of snort and fart.
_________________________
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana

Top
#7307771 - 01/13/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]
Ralphie Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 1696
Loc: NW Wyoming
Mustangs on the span? Being used for ranch work? I've spent quite a bit of time in the Great Basin and have several friends that work there and the best I have ever heard mustangs called was shitters.

Top
#7309950 - 01/14/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ppine
Sore,
We all have respect for your opinion. As a mule man, I would point out the similarities of mustangs to long ears.

We can use a dog analogy. I love dogs and currently have 3 purebred herding dogs. One has problems with his hips, and one has a wolverine temperment. My crossbred dogs of similar breeds have had none of these problems. Imagine feral dogs that have to fend for themselves. The weak and specialized dogs get weeded out. Only the strong ones survive to reproduce.

My thinking about mustangs has gone full circle. I am tired of quarter horses with big round feet that flake off
and like to buck for fun. They eat too much and sometimes aren't very nimble in the steep stuff.
Being cowy makes up for it some of the time. If you don't like mustangs you have probably never ridden a good one. They are very common around here and are able to compete with other breeds chasing cows, in the backcountry, for endurance riding, trail trials, and for everyday use like feed lots and US Border Patrol.

The last mule I owned that really hurt me cost $5000 and came from far away.


If that is your experience with quarter horses then you were scraping the bottom of the barrel when you acquired them.

My quarter horses have people friendly dispositions and seldom buck when braking, their feet do not flake off and are extremely sure footed and athletic in any terrain
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


Top
#7311031 - 01/14/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: jwp475]
ppine Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 1187
Loc: Nevada
jwp,
I am glad to hear that your experiences with Quarters have been positive. I used to ride a lot of different ranch horses, and they weren't usually the good ones.
_________________________
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana

Top
#7311269 - 01/14/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Ralphie]
okbowman Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 980
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Ralphie
Originally Posted By: moosemike
I guess there are horse lovers and there are "sort of horse lovers" who only love certain breeds and hate others with vitriol.


I think there is a big difference in philosophy among different groups. I usually see the different groups as those who treat their horses as pets and those who use them for work. There are dang few mustangs working on cattle ranches.

Mustangs have been lifted up by folks who treat horses as pets.


Agreed. I've seen a few decent mustangs but the majority were severely lacking in many aspects.

Top
#7318961 - 01/16/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: okbowman]
Schenk Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 89
Loc: Monticello, Arkansas
I have a quarter, and he's got great feet. I've seen some good mustangs and mules. I want one with a butt wide and a lot of space between the ears and eyes both. lol
I can say that horse can be ridden without bucking.
Good luck on a 3k mile journey.

Top
#7319124 - 01/16/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]
cattle_auctioneer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 77
Cocadori, Do you know the route these guys will be taking? If they come through the three corners area where WY, CO, and Utah meet, anywhere by Craig, Vernal, Baggs, or Rock Springs, I would like to meet them and help them refill their panniers. I might not appreciate mustangs, but I would like to help these young men if they could use it.

Top
#7337254 - 01/20/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: cattle_auctioneer]
nealglen37 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 185
I would like to make a few point that have not been made.

1. I wish these guys all the luck, hope that get to go on this journey.

2. people use to adopt mustangs because they were cheap. Now though if you watch Craigslist you can pick up a registered two year old filly for 600-700 hundred.

3. You know a quarter will mature to around 15 hands and around 1000 pounds, mustages are usually a lot smaller, and may physically have problems caring a larger rider.

4. These are not the mustangs of history. The mustangs of history roamed all of the Texas, Kansas, and Nebraska plains. They lived on good grass that now feeds cattle. Mustangs today live on scrub brush and some grass, they live in small pockets of land were a lot of inbreeding occurs. They are living on land no one wanted to buy so it became BLM land. Also a lot of these animals have draft horse blood, during the great depression many farmers would just set their horses free because they could not feed them.

5. Lastly you can't kill mustangs, which directly leads to an overpopulation of the ares they live on, just not enough grass for them all.

6.Personally I would like to see every horse, and cow taken off federal lands..................I would like to see those areas left for Deer, elk, and antelope...........yes I hunt.

Thanks


Edited by nealglen37 (01/20/13)

Top
#7337818 - 01/20/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: nealglen37]
saddlesore Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11627
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Originally Posted By: nealglen37
6.Personally I would like to see every horse, and cow taken off federal lands..................I would like to see those areas left for Deer, elk, and antelope...........yes I hunt.



Sure would inflate the cost of beef. A lt of ranchers feed those wild critters in the winter. Right now you can see hundreds of pronghorns on winter wheat, thousands of elk on winter ranch forage. What do you think would happen if the ranchers and farmers stopped that.Most BLM or NF land would not support the herds and in eastern Colorado almost all the pronghorn herds are on public land.
_________________________
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

Top
#7339061 - 01/20/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]
nealglen37 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 185
Hey Mr. Sores:

I don't want to inflate the price of beef (corn and grain prices do that when the steers hit the feed lots). If you will read the post below you will see that eight of the top ten cattle producing states have no BLM lands. As for wanting wildlife on these lands I have as much say as the next guy..............my taxes pay for for those lands. If you don't want someone telling you what to feed or keep on your land...........buy a ranch.

http://www.cattlerange.com/cattle-graphs/all-cattle-numbers.html

Top
#7339849 - 01/21/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: nealglen37]
saddlesore Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11627
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Nothing to do what other cattle producing states do,or me telling what others to feed on thier land.Just educating that the big elk herd states, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho,Montana, all contibute to feeding the wildlife in the winter on private grounds.

The attitude of removing all cattle and horses( btw sheep too) from public land shows a lack of knowledge of just how our wildlife herds depend on the private land for survival. Removing them from public land would neccesitate large herd reductions as the public land alone does not have the carrying capacity. It's a give an take situation that many do not understand. The Colorado DOW pays a lot of attention to the Agricultural community and trades off grazing on pubic land in return for those same animals to graze on private land.Without that, there would be larger payments to ranchers for crop damage. Cutting down the number of elk and deer on public land then would mean that, at least in Colorado,there would be no more OTC tags available.

Removing pronghorn from private land ,at least in eastern Colorado, would mean almost complete decimation of entire herds, leaving you no place to hunt them,if you chose Colorado to do so as the Commanche and Pawnee National Grasslands could not even come close to sustaing those herds.

Sometimes our wants and desires have consquences far beyond what we imagine.
_________________________
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

Top
#7339920 - 01/21/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Cocadori]
Toomanytracks Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/21/13
Posts: 5
Here is a backstory to the post for the 3000 mile journey. Ben Masters is the young man behind the creation of this journey. He put together a similar trip a few years back traveling from New Mexico to the Montana. This trip was self-funded by group of college guys wanting to spend their summer break in the backcountry. This trip was a successful endeavor with many exciting tribulations. How many of you cowboys have been held at gunpoint while packing in the backcountry? Imagine spending weeks on in traveling in the backcountry when you reach the border of Yellowstone National Park and are confronted by Park police thinking you are escaped convicts.

Ben is a well skilled individual,he has been a licensed professional guide in Wyoming for two years working for an outfitter in the Throughfare which is one of the most remote spots in the continental United States. He is no strangers to hard work or the difficulties with dealing with stock in the backcountry. This won't be a green trip. I hope you all would help support this young man and his endeavor as I will.


Edited by Toomanytracks (01/21/13)

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  RickBin, SYSOP 
RV 180 2
CLICK HERE for KENETREK:  The LIGHTEST, MOST COMFORTABLE BOOT YOU'LL FIND!
RV 160 1 2
RV 160 2 2
Who's Online
367 registered (1234, 257heaven, 1lesfox, 163bc, 1899sav, 37 invisible), 721 Guests and 290 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RV 160 3 2
Forum Stats
53,478 Registered Members
72 Forums
692,448 Topics
10,005,076 Posts

Most users ever online: 4,830 @ 12/02/14










Copyright © 2000-2015 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.