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#7276485 - 01/06/13 12:57 PM Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70
BlackDog1 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 1557
About 3 years ago, I put a post up on the fire about a 7x57 I have that was manufactured sometime in 1965. Prior to purchasing the rifle (more than 10 years go) I called Winchester and spoke to Harry in their historical dept. about it's authenticity.
Harry ran the serial number and verified that it was a 7x57 and suggested that it may have been part of a run of special order rifles produced for either Davidsons or Cherry's and/or possibly intended for European distribution.
I then went back to the gun shop and purchased the rifle based on that conversation.

After I posted it up up here on the fire, there were a number of helpful posts, for instance, I found out that the stock was of a later manufacture, what happened to the original I do not know.
It was also suggested that Winchester may have re-barreled this rifle at one point.

I have been thinking about what I should do with the rifle. I took the rifle out of the safe a few days ago and while thinking about it, I removed the the one piece scope mount that was still on the rifle in my original post,
and noticed that both the action and barrel are single proof stamped suggesting that Winchester did not re-barrel it.
There is also a 55 stamped on the underside of the barrel adjacent to the witness mark. The barrel is also not marked "Featherweight" suggesting it was a take-off barrel from a later rifle.

I'm attaching some pictures in the hope that some of you might be able to help me figure this rifle out.
I am interested in selling it and would like to put a honest and fair value on it.
I am happy to provide any additional pictures to aid in evaluating this rifle
Thanks for your time and consideration,

BD













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Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
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#7279483 - 01/07/13 06:36 AM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: BlackDog1]
Horseman Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 1274
Loc: Midwest
The 55 would suggest 1955 mfg. installed on a later receiver. Someone's put newer sights on it and a much later production stock. More pics would be nice along with most of your serial no.

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#7282710 - 01/07/13 06:16 PM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: Horseman]
BlackDog1 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 1557
Thanks for your time, here are some more pics as you requested, If there is something in particular you would like to see , please make mention of it and I'll do my best to send it along.
My only guess, and its just a guess, is that the 55 date might suggest it was a cleanup barrel from parts that was installed on this rifle when it was produced, much like the cleanup 54 barrels that were installed on early 70's. The taper on this barrel is a standard weight and BTW, where's the barrel lasset like the pre's had? . I was told the sights are correct for a '65 era rifle, and the stock is of a much later USRAC vintage. I couldn't say one way or the other because I don't know, Post 64 era guns are out of my scope of knowledge, thats why I put it up here.
Sorry about the last pic, I don't know why it came in upside down, I included it for those that my be able to identify the vintage of the roll marks. There are no other identifying marks on the barrel.

Thanks,
BD

















_________________________
Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
- Winston Churchill-

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#7287408 - 01/08/13 06:42 PM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: BlackDog1]
Jericho Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 5830
A few years ago one of the members here had a post 64 M70 sporter
in 35 REM. I believe it was a 1965 or 1966 manufacturer date.
Back in the 90s a guy in the GUNLIST had post 64 M70 sporters in
6.5x55mm and 250-3000. They were not FWTs.

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#7288780 - 01/09/13 06:41 AM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: BlackDog1]
Redneck Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 37946
Loc: TAXHELLWI. USA
The stampings on that barrel are of the style during the pre'-64 days. Especially, the '55' stamp on the bottom suggests this barrel may not be the one originally fitted to the receiver..

At the same time though, the bolt is a PF style. If the breech is of the PF style then I'm thinking a gunsmith at some point did the mods necessary to fit a pre-64 barrel to a post '64 action and removed the sight node at the same time..

Hard to say for sure.. An interesting rifle, that.. smile
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#7290143 - 01/09/13 12:13 PM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: Redneck]
blairvt Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 1120
Loc: Charlotte, NC
how does it shoot?

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#7292333 - 01/09/13 08:33 PM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: blairvt]
BlackDog1 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 1557
Jericho, I have also heard of a couple of other oddballs out there too, but have never hand my hands on one or have seen a picture either......

blairvt, I don't know.... I have never shot it..... messed up huh :0

Redneck, I would be inclined to agree with you however, the taper of the barrel is slightly thicker than a pre barrel is sans the "node" or lasset as I'm familiar with it.
I laid a '53 Std weight pre '06 adjacent to the rifle in question this evening and lined up the faces of the actions equally side by side to take the pics presented.
The roll marks don't line up in relationship to what would have been a "55 standard weight 7x57 barrel had a node been present on the rifle in question, and subsequently turned off on a lathe,
I also believe the factory roll marks of the 7x57 would have been compromised.
In the pics, one might notice that the word "trademark" lies underneath the Winchester logo on the "53.
It is absent on on the 7x57 it and has been replaced with a R within a circle after the name, the copyright logo maybe ? and something that I've never seen on a Pre, only the post 64"s .
The "53 pre also says " Made in New Haven Conn. U.S. Of America. The 7x57 says, Made in the U.S.A. another item I've only seen on "post" rifles. Frankly the roll marks and die stamps between the two barrels is vastly different given the very close proximity of age, assuming the 7x57 was a '55 take off barrel.
One other thing I feel might be worthy of mention is that to the best of my knowledge, all the model 70 barrels of pre 1960 manufacture had a a integral front ramp sight. If my understanding is correct, and if the barrel of this rifle had been shortened to remove and lathe turn the node off, It would have also been necessary to turn the integral ramp off. The barrel of the 7x57 shows no evidence of ever having that ramp nor has the rifle been polished and re-blued.
Something that may help is if I could find out when Winchester went from a "trademarked" name to a "copyrighted " name.....
any ideas????
Thanks for all the help, it's much appreciated.

BD






_________________________
Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
- Winston Churchill-

NRA Endowment Life Member

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#7293067 - 01/10/13 05:47 AM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: BlackDog1]
Poconojack Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 547
Barrel stamping on a pre 64 is 7 M/M unlike this barrel that is stamped 7 M/M Mauser.
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#7293350 - 01/10/13 07:01 AM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: Poconojack]
reelman Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 2486
Loc: Wisconsin - Land of the PACKER...
Just my opinion but I don't think that it's a P64 barrel.

FYI only pre-war rifles had an internal front sight, later ones had a front sight that was silver soldered on. Your's is screwed on which was not done on any P64's except some target guns.

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#7294314 - 01/10/13 11:08 AM Re: Need some help with a 7x57 Mdl. 70 [Re: reelman]
Horseman Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 1274
Loc: Midwest
Soldered barrel sights started in 53 on 70's and 94's. Same year hollow bolt handles started appearing.

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