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#7289516 - 01/09/13 09:25 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: isaac]
dvdegeorge Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 14396
Loc: Western N.Y.
You have a line on one Bob?
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#7290593 - 01/09/13 02:22 PM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: dvdegeorge]
isaac Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 55859
Loc: Northern Virginia
I have a gun shop owner who says he's in line to get some but he did not know what the real MSRP was going to be.
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#7306058 - 01/13/13 05:33 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: Take_a_knee]
the_gman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 173
Loc: N. NM
Originally Posted By: Take_a_knee
I've only ordered a few parts from them but they have a good rep. I would not be afraid to buy from them. I'd probably buy from them before I'd buy a Bushmaster or a DPMS, and I don't have a problem with DPMS, they and Bushmaster tend to use schit for barrels on all but their high end guns, IME. The Bushie Varmints shoot, and the DPMS SASS's shoot, everything else, not so well. As far as any of these name-brand guns breaking, I've just not seen it. What you will see is guns shipped with maybe a buffer that is too light, or is under or overgassed due to the wrong size gas port hole. This is why myself and others tell people to learn to assemble their own uppers. Buy a complete lower, you can often get a complete lower for not that much more than the parts.


Sorry, but Del-Ton is buying their stuff from the same guys that supply Bushmaster and DPMS and a million other folks in the AR business. There are only so many suppliers in the industry for stuff like bolts, carriers, firing pins, bolt catches, selectors, barrels etc. I know; I used to order all the parts above in 1000 piece lots for one of the premier manufacturers of AR's in the nation. A VERY small number of real manufacturers push out 10's of thousands of parts every year which are then sold on to the industry.

Randy Luth, the former owner of DPMS will readily confirm the above as that is how he got his start in the industry; he worked for a company that bartered AR and other defense parts to Colt and others and saw an opportunity to get in on the deal. Stag Arms President Mark Malkowski did the same thing when he saw an opportunity after the parts his dad's company (Continental Machine and Tool) were making for Colt could be rolled over into rifles and make some money.

In reality, very, very few companies are actually manufacturing every part that goes into their rifles, in fact, I would dare say not ONE AR company in the USA makes ALL their own parts. Connecticut Spring and Plate make 95% of the springs in the AR market as they turn out millions of springs a year. Most AR barrels are made by either ER Shaw or Wilson (NOT Wilson Combat BTW) but Ruger are in on the market with their hammer forged barrels as are Daniel Defense. Bulldog Barrels are coming thru and have made barrels for Colt in the past.

I can 100% guarantee that Bushmaster, DPMS, Bravo Company, LaRue or Noveske rifles all share some of the same parts whether they will admit it or not; only the uninformed try to convince themselves of the opposite.....

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#7306072 - 01/13/13 05:41 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: the_gman]
Cold Zero Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 327
I think JP Rifles makes more of their own parts than anyone else. It is also reflected in their pricing.
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#7306124 - 01/13/13 06:02 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: the_gman]
TWR Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 5381
Things have changed, there is a video around here showing Colts operation. They make their own barrels, bolts and carriers, uppers, lowers and a lot of small parts.

And then there's QC which led to Colt refusing parts that didn't meet their standards. Those parts went somewhere, I promise you that. The "parts is parts" line is wrong. If a man can't tell dpms parts from Colt parts, he ain't looking close enough.

Before you call me a Colt snob, I no longer own a factory gun from any company but I've seen enough to know what I'll trust and what I won't.

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#7306201 - 01/13/13 06:28 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: the_gman]
Take_a_knee Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 12946
Originally Posted By: the_gman

I can 100% guarantee that Bushmaster, DPMS, Bravo Company, LaRue or Noveske rifles all share some of the same parts whether they will admit it or not; only the uninformed try to convince themselves of the opposite.....


I'm fully aware of that, that's why I said I'd buy parts from Delton. However, just like a lot of engine builders might buy their parts from the same warehouse, one is a lot more careful during assembly, and actually CHECKS parts to makes sure they are in spec, and rejects them if they are not. In THAT regard, their can be a huge difference in AR's. And with barrels, like optics, you get what you pay for.

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#7306362 - 01/13/13 07:14 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: Take_a_knee]
EdM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 6019
Loc: Between Here and There
It seems that Daniel Defense makes a significant number of the own parts. Was touring their Ambush Arms site this AM that gives a small "tour" of their facility.
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#7306540 - 01/13/13 07:59 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: dvdegeorge]
srwshooter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 4428
Loc: grottoes ,virginia,usa
i hae owned arund 10 dti upper and a few lowers. no problems with anything delton. before tshtf i could buy dti uppers from my dealer for 329.00 for mid-length and 349.00 for cabine length with bcg . a great price on very good upper.

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#7306915 - 01/13/13 09:22 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: TWR]
the_gman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 173
Loc: N. NM
Originally Posted By: TWR
Things have changed, there is a video around here showing Colts operation. They make their own barrels, bolts and carriers, uppers, lowers and a lot of small parts.

And then there's QC which led to Colt refusing parts that didn't meet their standards. Those parts went somewhere, I promise you that. The "parts is parts" line is wrong. If a man can't tell dpms parts from Colt parts, he ain't looking close enough.

Before you call me a Colt snob, I no longer own a factory gun from any company but I've seen enough to know what I'll trust and what I won't.


Colt still buys parts from outside vendors. I have been to the factories and seen the parts machined and marked with the Colt name. Right now, a very good friend of mine is machining lowers, uppers and other items for Colt. There is indeed a difference between parts destined for some companies even when produced by the same sub contractors. When I was ordering parts, I had the option of ordering bolts that were as finished or add shot peening and/or magnafluxed and proofed. Each additional process adds cost and delays shipping. None the less, the parts were made by the same sub, in the same plant, on the same machinery by the same workers from the same material.

Colt has a spec to work to and a TDP to adhere to as does FN. Bushmaster/Remington were awarded a contract to supply firearms to the US Military and they also must now adhere to that level of quality for the contract to be fulfilled.

I would also say that for 99% of civilian uses, parts are indeed parts. Snobbery does play an extensive part in the AR business when it comes to the self appointed experts determining what is and what isn't acceptable. I've PERSONALLY seen Noveske barrels shot out at 11,000 rounds (sideways bullets at 10 yards with 90% of the rounds on semi-auto) while I have a rifle with a supposedly crappy ER Shaw barrel that has over 17,000 rounds on it, most of it on full auto. It still shoots MOA.

I have barrels from Lothar Walther, Shaw, Mossberg (yep, Mossberg has quietly been making AR barrels for years) and several other makers and frankly, there really isn't much to separate them from one another. I really like Young manufacturing carriers (Les Baer likes them enough to use them) but carriers from Microbest are pretty nice too. LMT bolts are nice, as are JP (but then, he's simply copying the ones he used to buy from Southern Gun Co. in the UK) but Advanced Ordnance in FL make a TON of bolts for near enough everyone in the industry.

With the exception of Blackthorne (aka Vulcan, aka Hesse) I would buy parts from just about any AR company if all I wanted was a coyote/rat/home defense gun. Hell, a bunch of police departments have Bushmaster and DPMS guns in service without a ton of problems. Again, for what 99% of AR buyers will use their guns for, most any parts will suffice.

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#7307008 - 01/13/13 09:43 AM Re: Educate Me On Del-ton [Re: the_gman]
liliysdad Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 1098
I on my second Del Ton upper. This is a 15" 1:9 Cl Pencil Barrel upper. This upper has been in use my work/patrol rifle, and has been more than satisfactory. I have a little over 6k rounds through it, and have had zero issues. It has only been really cleaned once, after a match in Shreveport, where it rained nearly a foot during the match, and it was covered, and filled, with Louisiana mud. This gun has been through several SWAT comps, threegun matches, and rifle schools.

That being said, parts are not parts. I bought the DTI knowing full well that it was not a crap shoot, and I have the knowledge and ability to remedy issues I might run across. With Colt, and other upper end manufacturers, you are paying for quality control, and parts built to a spec. For example, the carrier key screws were barely staked on both my DTI bolts. I staked them, and went on. I have seen far too many factory guns from second level manufacturers fail in schools and training to trust them. I do believe that a DPMS can be a good gun, just as a Colt can be a turd. The odds of getting a crap gun increase, however, as cost decreases. If one has the ability, knowledge, and tools, they can remedy MOST of the issues encountered with the cheaper guns.


Edited by liliysdad (01/13/13 09:48 AM)

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