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I was having dinner last night with my son's father inlaw when the toppic of guns and shooting came up. Apparantly in the mid 1960's he was a "sharp shooter" in the South African Army and qualified by shooting a 4" group at 500 meters using an FN rifle in 7.62 Nato with open peep sights. Sounded like a feat of remarkable marksmanship. I could see a scope sighted rifle off bags on the bench doing that kind of grouping, but open sights and prone position left me wondering on the feasibility? I did not challenge his claim, only told him that was some incredible shooting. Any thoughts from competive shooters?

Last edited by 300Savage; 01/10/13.
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not by me ... but I've seen some folks that rock it on a whole 'nother planet than I.


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At 600 yards we use a 3 inch spotter disc that is put in your last bullet hole, while the previous is taped shut. Target comes up and you can see your very last shot location....

ANyway I've almost never shot anything but the AR15 with iron sights in service rifle, in a jacket prone with a sling all the way to 1000 yards.

I have a spotter disc somewhere from Camp PErry from a 20 shot 600 yard match no sighters, that my pit crew gave me when we swapped relays... had 17 .224 cal holes in the 3 inch disc....

And I've shot a lot of groups that were 5 shot groups off a bench with irons testing different components at 600 yards. Almsot all have been 3-5 inch groups with the right ammo.


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Absolutely doable and that level of accuracy is exhibited regularly at XTC and LR matches. I'm classified as Master and have shot 100-9x with an AR service rifle on the 600 yd slow fire XTC target which I believe has a 1 MOA X-ring (6"). I've also managed 10 x's at 1000yds in Palma competition which is a .308 with aperture sights. Probably rare to achieve with a service grade rifle, but not beyond possibility.

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Would be rare with a service grade rifle and service grade ammo, but not at all rare with a service rifle and match ammo.

HM with Service rifle both XC and LR.

Last edited by rost495; 01/10/13.

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Originally Posted by rost495
... but not at all rare with a service rifle and math ammo. ...


That adds up wink



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Editing... good catch


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Thanks ... wanna give me some shooing lessons smile


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Took too many years to learn how myself... went from can't hit the paper, to hope to hit the black to piss me off if I shoot a 9.... and a 10 is a warning oops...

All I can say about shooting lessons, don't EVER discount hours of dry fire time. Flat amazing how much better I ended up shooting taking that to heart plus seeing what I could see as the hammer fell, vs that being covered up by recoil...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by rost495
At 600 yards we use a 3 inch spotter disc that is put in your last bullet hole, while the previous is taped shut. Target comes up and you can see your very last shot location....

ANyway I've almost never shot anything but the AR15 with iron sights in service rifle, in a jacket prone with a sling all the way to 1000 yards.

I have a spotter disc somewhere from Camp PErry from a 20 shot 600 yard match no sighters, that my pit crew gave me when we swapped relays... had 17 .224 cal holes in the 3 inch disc....

And I've shot a lot of groups that were 5 shot groups off a bench with irons testing different components at 600 yards. Almsot all have been 3-5 inch groups with the right ammo.


Seventeen shots and you didn't hit the spindle... Dood? grin

That's some awesome shooting Jeff!!!

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yep, just never got that lucky.. grins


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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We use 1 1/4" spotters for 600 yard F-Class. I have an uncanny knack of hitting the spindle... when the spotter is in the "9" ring.

Well I guess there IS something out there shocked eek grin

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I probably hit most spindles in the 7 ring on "verification" shots.

Yes the wind did change that much you idiot... grins


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
We use 1 1/4" spotters for 600 yard F-Class. I have an uncanny knack of hitting the spindle... when the spotter is in the "9" ring.



Hey, at least you are being consistent.

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Originally Posted by 300Savage
qualified by shooting a 4" group at 500 meters using an FN rifle in 7.62 Nato with open peep sights. Sounded like a feat of remarkable marksmanship. I could see a scope sighted rifle off bags on the bench doing that kind of grouping, but open sights and prone position left me wondering on the feasibility?

Was the rifle a FAL (L1A1)? Lots of different FN rifles. The differences are important.

Is the group possible with a FAL? Yeah, one lucky group. Likely? Probably less likely than getting hit by lightening.

The FAL is a nice battle rifle, but it sure isn't an AR nor is it an M14.


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I'm going to say yes, it's possible and probably consistently doable.


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I've shot several 16X cleans at 600 yards with Iron sights on a match rifle, several 14 and 15x cleans at 600 yards with a service rifle.
I think your sons FIL is probably not bullish*tting.


When people face the possibility of freezing or starving there is little chance they are going to listen to unfounded claims of climate doomsday from a bunch of ultra-rich yacht sailing private jet-setting carbon-spewing hypocrite elites
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Now you've gotten a reply from one of the top shooters in the nation....


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I can say the same about you my friend. I hope you and yours are doing well.


When people face the possibility of freezing or starving there is little chance they are going to listen to unfounded claims of climate doomsday from a bunch of ultra-rich yacht sailing private jet-setting carbon-spewing hypocrite elites
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Don't think my skills ever came close to yours, but thanks for the comments.

Same back at ya and Happy New Year.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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