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what do you shoot for a muzzleloader swampman??????????

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Right now an Encore.


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Originally Posted by renegade50
[bleep] i will tell anyone that brand abc item is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel if someone is willing to pay me to say it



hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!


But that's not the case....did you see the xray showing the spainish made breechplug inside the guys head.


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How do you know he didn't load it with smokeless powder? How do you know he didn't double load it? How do you know it didn't have a barrel restriction? You don't know.

Why aren't they all blowing up?

Last edited by Mauser_Hunter; 01/11/13.

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There was no operator error. There are dozens pictures of different injuries. Give them time...you never know when defective barrels and breechpugs are gonna turn loose.

A good muzzleloader will handle a double or even a tripple load I've done it on purpose many times. A barrel obstruction blows up at the obstruction.


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so ................
the dumbass probably was at fault anyways for something he did or didnt do


i have shot many different brands of muzzle loaders

never had an issue except for a couple of #11 caps failing to fire way back when


i shoot a cva optima 209 now
1st ever inline this year
killed a nice 8pt with it
prior to that i hunted with a tc renegade 50 since 1993

i have also hunted with a replica 1863 springfeild

had a lyman plains pistol from a kit i made

shot a wincheter 45 apex numerous times

shot a savage smokless a couple of times(someday i will get one)
shot a cva wolf a couple of times

and right now i would to get a cva kodiak pro mag in 45 if i can come up with the fundage



i think alot of them had spanish steel


do you have some type of agenda to push????????




so cva had some issues back in 95-96 with their maker of barrels in spain and had some deaths resulting from them possibly

but it also could have been operator headspace and timing in some of those incidents also

im sure they got the crap sued out of them either way


what exactly is your endstate in all of this and what do you hope to accomplish on your soapbox



guns are like
blondes and brunettes
fords and chevys






me myself
im not a fan of remington 700 rifles
but i aint on no crusade about them



what gives man


someone out shoot you with a old school cva or something


i bet my old school optima 209 with 100 grs of 777 ffg and a 270 grain sabertooth will out shoot your encore



hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........

grin laugh

Last edited by renegade50; 01/11/13.
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Originally Posted by Swampman700
There was no operator error. There are dozens pictures of different injuries. Give them time...you never know when defective barrels and breechpugs are gonna turn loose.

A good muzzleloader will handle a double or even a tripple load I've done it on purpose many times. A barrel obstruction blows up at the obstruction.



A good muzzleloader will handle a double or even a tripple load I've done it on purpose many times.

i call b.s.
no one would do this on purpose
that is why barrels are proofed randomly at the factory out of batches of the steel fromula being used in the run until that batch of steel is used up in that runs production


metalurgy..................

i do not beleive you one bit about the double or triple loading



you credibilty just went by the wayside in my opinon........................

Last edited by renegade50; 01/11/13.
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Believe what you like. I've fired muzzleloaders with 200 and even 300 grains of 3f and 2 bullets over the charge.


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Originally Posted by renegade50
so ................do you have some type of agenda to push???????? No

what exactly is your endstate in all of this and what do you hope to accomplish on your soapbox


Preventing injuries

me myself

im not a fan of remington 700 rifles


Moot point but your loss



but i aint on no crusade about them



what gives man


someone out shoot you with a old school cva or something


This isn't about accuracy it's about safety


i bet my old school optima 209 with 100 grs of 777 ffg and a 270 grain sabertooth will out shoot your encore



But will you live to tell about it?



hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........

grin laugh


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Originally Posted by Swampman700
Believe what you like. I've fired muzzleloaders with 200 and even 300 grains of 3f and 2 bullets over the charge.


That's what the guys in the law suits said too.

Keep it up, and you can join them.

It won't be owner error though eh?
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Proofing barrels has to be done when you build rifles. Sadly CVA doesn't know that.


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Originally Posted by Swampman700
Believe what you like. I've fired muzzleloaders with 200 and even 300 grains of 3f and 2 bullets over the charge.


total b.s.

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"Last night curiosity got the best of me and I uncovered the Rockwell hardness tester to check out the hardness of the Bergara Encore barrels.

"Cheap, Soft Spanish guns" has traditionally sometimes been true, unfortunately, which I can personally vouch for in regard to some I have had such as a Llama 1911 type .45 ACP that had the slide showing signs of stretching after very little use. Likewise, my .45 Firestar shows signs of stretching with only a few Federal +Ps run through it.

Likewise, Taurus handguns from Brazil once had a reputation for being cheaply made, but today it is another story entirely with Taurus putting out superb guns that rival the very best. Frankly, I have picked up several Taurus wheel guns that left me lusting for one myself!

Over the past year and a half doing machine work on Bergara barrels, I have rechambered, cut and crowned, relined, had numerous barrels cut rifle rebored to larger calibers, drilled and tapped, and cut my TBOSS into them.

Their steel machines VERY nicely. Harking back to the days when I did a lot of cut rifling reboring, off the cuff in terms of machineability, I would put the Bergara Encore barrel steel somewhere between early Winchester stainless steel and Ruger's blued, chrome-moly, steel for machining easily and very cleanly.

Cut rifle reboring will tell you more about the machining qualities of barrel steel probably better than any other test. The Bergara barrels I have had rebored recently have cut rifled beautifully!

Internal finishes and the costs to produce those finishes are in part a function of how readily the steel machines and is reflected in the finishes of both the bores and the chambers of the Bergara barrels and their excellent price points.

The point of this Newsletter is this. Has anything by way of barrel hardness (ie, tensile strength) been sacrificed to get these nice finishes at the price we pay for the product?

Drum rollllllll:

Blued steel Bergara Encore barrels Rockwell hardness tested at Rc 25.
Stainless steel Bergara Encore barrels Rockwell hardenss tested Rc 17.
(Their Encore muzzle loader barrels are made from the same steel as their rifle barrels.)

How does this compare with other high power rifle barrels?

Quick summary of checks I have made over the years:

Older vintages of military Mauser barrels and early 1903 Springfield .30/06 manganese steel barrels around Rc 10.

Later Springfield .30/06 barrels made from what P.O. Ackley said was "WD4140," WD meaning "War Department", was around Rc17, the average hardness of "normalized," ie, air cooled 4140 steel.

The majority of commercial barrels from Winchester, Remington, Ruger, etc. tested around Rc 24-26, while at the time I tested them, the Savage 110 barrels were right up there at around Rc 30-32.

Shilen barrels at the time were Rc 19 while Douglas was around Rc 25.

Current Shilen barrels run around Rc 29-30.

Most 416 stainless rifle barrels are around Rc 20, +/-.

As you can see, barrel steel hardnesses range all over the planet, over the entire hardness range from dead soft annealed up through about Rc 32, the upper end of the hardness range that still readily permits the types of machining operations involved in making barrels.

Bottom line:
The Bergara Encore barrels made in Bergara, Spain are right where they need to be for hardness, which determines in large part the tensile strength of the steel.

"Soft Spanish guns" does not apply here!

Another plus for Bergara barrels!


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whatever you got an axe to grind and some agenda to push


you have no credibilty at all with your double and triple charge and double bullet post


you need to go post you world of commander mcbragg exploits somewhere else

no one here beleives any thing you say from the looks of this entire thread


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Laughable cut and paste.......they "steel" is trash. Bergara barrels are just the old CVA barrels with a different stamp.


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IMO it's impossible to blow up a good American made barrel with blackpowder. I've tried. The strange metals used in spainish guns is weak and gritty. I'm not sure how they make it, but it's scarry.


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Originally Posted by Swampman700
IMO it's impossible to blow up a good American made barrel with blackpowder. I've tried. The strange metals used in spainish guns is weak and gritty. I'm not sure how they make it, but it's scarry.



GFY Azzclown..no one believes anything you say. You are the 24hrcampfire village idiot.

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Originally Posted by Swampman700
Believe what you like. I've fired muzzleloaders with 200 and even 300 grains of 3f and 2 bullets over the charge.



Next time put in 300 grains of smokeless and touch it off. We should only be so lucky

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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Swampman700
IMO it's impossible to blow up a good American made barrel with blackpowder. I've tried. The strange metals used in spainish guns is weak and gritty. I'm not sure how they make it, but it's scarry.



GFY Azzclown..no one believes anything you say. You are the 24hrcampfire village idiot.



If you had any experience, you'd agree with everything I say.


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Originally Posted by Swampman700
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Swampman700
IMO it's impossible to blow up a good American made barrel with blackpowder. I've tried. The strange metals used in spainish guns is weak and gritty. I'm not sure how they make it, but it's scarry.



GFY Azzclown..no one believes anything you say. You are the 24hrcampfire village idiot.



If you had any experience, you'd agree with everything I say.


Trust me, I don't want any of your "Experience"

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