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#7304127 - 01/13/13 FFL Transaction Problem
RogerD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 260
Hello,

I purchased a handgun on Gunbroker and contacted the FFL and sent him the funds including shipping in Sept 2012. I became ill and never was able to send him my dealers FFL copy till now. I tried to contact the seller but he now refuses to talk to me. Did I wait too long and have I forefieted my rights to still aquire the firearm from him?

Thanks for any help.

p.s. I did know where to post this but figured there should be some FFL's that post here.

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#7304170 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
acloco Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 1602
Loc: Nebraska
Believe I would call the FFL's District Attorney and City or Sheriff department. Either of these parties would be interested in visiting this FFL about goods paid for.

How were funds sent? If postal, I would file a fraud complaint.

If the DA or police are not interested, I can imagine that the ATF would be VERY interested.

...and...after all of this is said and done, I would log a complaint with the better business bureau.

There is NO reason this person should not resolve this.


Let me guess....was this purchase an AR or other high priced item now?

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#7304184 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: acloco]
RogerD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 260
Thanks....it was a TC contender and I paid by personal check sent by U.S. mail. I checked and there is a ATF field office in his immediate area. I have the cancelled check. The amount of purchase was 400.00

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#7304291 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
RogerD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 260
Wow I just checked Gunbroker and the FFL dealer sold the same gun on 11/15/2012. What now?????


Edited by RogerD (01/13/13)

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#7304344 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
ctw Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3106
Where is the ffl dealer located?
_________________________
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!!
The Old Fart 2008 A.D.

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#7304348 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
Originally Posted By: RogerD
I tried to contact the seller but he now refuses to talk to me.


Originally Posted By: RogerD
I paid by personal check sent by U.S. mail. I have the cancelled check. The amount of purchase was 400.00


Originally Posted By: RogerD
Wow I just checked Gunbroker and the FFL dealer sold the same gun on 11/15/2012. What now?????


I'd say that he definitely owes you $400.

I'd try contacting him once more, with info on the auction where he later sold the gun, along with a copy of your cancelled check.

If no response, go to Gunbroker.

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#7304357 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: ctw]
RogerD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 260
Originally Posted By: ctw
Where is the ffl dealer located?


In Washington State

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#7304470 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: ColdBore]
RogerD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 260
Originally Posted By: ColdBore
Originally Posted By: RogerD
I tried to contact the seller but he now refuses to talk to me.


Originally Posted By: RogerD
I paid by personal check sent by U.S. mail. I have the cancelled check. The amount of purchase was 400.00


Originally Posted By: RogerD
Wow I just checked Gunbroker and the FFL dealer sold the same gun on 11/15/2012. What now?????


I'd say that he definitely owes you $400.

I'd try contacting him once more, with info on the auction where he later sold the gun, along with a copy of your cancelled check.

If no response, go to Gunbroker.



I emailed him just now and left a phone message.

If no response I will contact the Yakima ATF field office on Monday.

Gunbroker is worthless.


Edited by RogerD (01/13/13)

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#7304660 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
mauser416 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 149
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Did the sale site list the terms and conditions of the sale? If a time was stipulated for receipt of funds and or FFL then you may be out of luck to that end. Having said that I would think that you are due your $400 to be returned.

I think you will find that the BATFE does not deal with this type of thing. They only license dealers. They do not deal with failure to provide services/goods. The State Attorney General is one avenue to address this. Having said that I think you will find limited assistance forthcoming from the AG. They will file a case and they will contact the smith but for a single case of $400 I do not think they will act. I know, I went through an ordeal over $4000.

Send the guy a certified letter outlining what happened and state that you want your money returned by a given date since he failed to deliver the goods you purchased
_________________________
Vladimir I. Lenin claimed, "One of the basic conditions for victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communists) and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class)."

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#7304757 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: mauser416]
bea175 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 27761
Loc: Kpt.,TN , Montgomery, Co, VA
When i was a FFL Dealer i sent payment for a shotgun to a FFL in Chicago and the guy cashed the check and didn't send the goods. I contacted the ATF and they payed them or him a visited and i had my money returned within a week . The ATF guys are always looking for something to put a FFL out of business. The ATF may help you get a refund if you contact them and the guy who ripped you off is a FFL Holder.
_________________________
There’s a great place to go when you’re broke — to work!”



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#7304866 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: bea175]
RogerD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 260
Originally Posted By: bea175
When i was a FFL Dealer i sent payment for a shotgun to a FFL in Chicago and the guy cashed the check and didn't send the goods. I contacted the ATF and they payed them or him a visited and i had my money returned within a week . The ATF guys are always looking for something to put a FFL out of business. The ATF may help you get a refund if you contact them and the guy who ripped you off is a FFL Holder.


Yes,the dealer is a current licensed FFL.

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#7305285 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
Oakster Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1869
Loc: Gillette, Wyoming
Just a question, but you dont have to send a copy of the FFL anymore do you? Cant the FFL be verified over the internet? I understand that a few years ago it was legally required, but is it still? Just curious and maybe it will help you out. Hope you get your $400 back.

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#7305613 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
bea175 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 27761
Loc: Kpt.,TN , Montgomery, Co, VA
ATF visit to him might get your money back.
_________________________
There’s a great place to go when you’re broke — to work!”



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#7305614 - 01/13/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: Oakster]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
Originally Posted By: Oakster
Just a question, but you dont have to send a copy of the FFL anymore do you? Cant the FFL be verified over the internet? I understand that a few years ago it was legally required, but is it still?


Most sellers will take a scanned and emailed copy, or even just the first and last few numbers, and verify it via EZ Check.

There is no legal requirement to have a wet ink signed copy in hand, but individual sellers (and FFLs) can be ticky about this, and you really can't force them to do it if they decide they want a hard copy.

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#7310793 - 01/14/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: bea175]
CAFR Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Arizona
Wow. You didn't give him the required "ship to" info for over 3 months, you cancelled the check that he didn't ever cash, and he sold the gun to a more responsive buyer. Sounds like a done deal to me. Get over it and move on.
_________________________
It takes 43 muscles to frown, but only 7 to squeeze the trigger on a good sniper rifle.

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#7310800 - 01/14/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: Oakster]
CAFR Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: Oakster
Just a question, but you dont have to send a copy of the FFL anymore do you? Cant the FFL be verified over the internet? I understand that a few years ago it was legally required, but is it still? Just curious and maybe it will help you out. Hope you get your $400 back.


The shipping FFL MUST have a hard copy of the Receiving FFL license in his paperwork to comply with the law.
_________________________
It takes 43 muscles to frown, but only 7 to squeeze the trigger on a good sniper rifle.

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#7310895 - 01/14/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: CAFR]
mudhen Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 9873
Loc: Boot Heel of New Mexico
Originally Posted By: CAFR
...you cancelled the check that he didn't ever cash...

Your reading comprehension sucks: he said that the dealer cashed the check and that he has the cancelled check. I would say the guy owes him $400.
_________________________
Young at heart, slightly older in most other places...

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#7310939 - 01/14/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: CAFR]
aalf Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 7487
Loc: S.W. Wis.
Originally Posted By: CAFR
Originally Posted By: Oakster
Just a question, but you dont have to send a copy of the FFL anymore do you? Cant the FFL be verified over the internet? I understand that a few years ago it was legally required, but is it still? Just curious and maybe it will help you out. Hope you get your $400 back.


The shipping FFL MUST have a hard copy of the Receiving FFL license in his paperwork to comply with the law.

They can fax it now....

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#7312630 - 01/14/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: aalf]
RogerD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 260
Just wanted to say the FFL and me worked it out. Thanks

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#7312639 - 01/14/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
noKnees Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 4694
Loc: johnstown, NY/Bloomfield CT
If they need a hard copy what's the ffl ez check for?
_________________________
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge

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#7313274 - 01/15/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: RogerD]
ctw Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3106
GOOD! Stories like this haunt internet purchase and sales. I hope to never have this problem.
_________________________
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!!
The Old Fart 2008 A.D.

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#7318975 - 01/16/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: mudhen]
CAFR Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: mudhen
Originally Posted By: CAFR
...you cancelled the check that he didn't ever cash...

Your reading comprehension sucks: he said that the dealer cashed the check and that he has the cancelled check. I would say the guy owes him $400.


Cancelling a check that has already been cashed seems a bit useless, don't ya think?
_________________________
It takes 43 muscles to frown, but only 7 to squeeze the trigger on a good sniper rifle.

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#7319102 - 01/16/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: CAFR]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
Originally Posted By: CAFR
Originally Posted By: mudhen
Originally Posted By: CAFR
...you cancelled the check that he didn't ever cash...

Your reading comprehension sucks: he said that the dealer cashed the check and that he has the cancelled check. I would say the guy owes him $400.


Cancelling a check that has already been cashed seems a bit useless, don't ya think?


I believe he means cancelled by being CASHED.

You seem to want to pick nits on this.

Read it in context, and it's really not too hard to comprehend.

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#7319365 - 01/16/13 Re: FFL Transaction Problem [Re: CAFR]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 72950
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
Originally Posted By: CAFR
Originally Posted By: mudhen
Originally Posted By: CAFR
...you cancelled the check that he didn't ever cash...

Your reading comprehension sucks: he said that the dealer cashed the check and that he has the cancelled check. I would say the guy owes him $400.


Cancelling a check that has already been cashed seems a bit useless, don't ya think?


Did you go to school stupid or did you come out that way? A cancelled check is one that has cleared and money is gone from his account. Sweet Jesus
_________________________
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