I finally had the chance to read his article in Handloader. I just ordered a Redding measure. I didnt know those measures/dispensers could be so accurate with the charge dispersal. Seems like everytime I read a JB article, my wallet gets lighter....Thanks for a great article. Scott
If you have a "micrometer" adjust powder measure and a fancy calculator or software on your computer that does statistics, linear regression in particular, you can get set so you don't have to use a scale much at all after doing the initial work. What follows works best for loaders who buy large quantities of single powder lot numbers.
Here's what we do with a Redding BR-30 for a new lot of powder. Set the adjustment to 20. Not 20 grains, just the 20 mark on the dial. Fill the hopper with powder and throw some charges to stabilize the powder column. Now throw five charges and weigh them together. Divide by five. Record this average weight.
Adjust the dial to 25. Throw some stabilizing charges, returning them to the hopper. Throw five charges and weigh together. Divide by five. Record the average weight.
Adjust the dial to 30. Throw some stabilizing charges, returning them to the hopper. Throw five charges and weigh together. Divide by five. Record the average weight.
. . .
Adjust the dial to 75. Throw some stabilizing charges, returning them to the hopper. Throw five charges and weigh together. Divide by five. Record the average weight.
So now we have a collection of ordered pairs, each a match between a dial setting and a powder weight. If the powder measure is a good one and our throwing technique checks out, we can plot these ordered pairs on an x-y coordinate system and they should lie very nearly on a line. Here's where the calculator/computer comes in.
Enter the data into a stat package and do a linear regression. The result will be a function relating dial setting to powder weight for that lot of powder. Record this on a reference sheet taped to the powder jug.
I've done this for many jugs of powder, and using the weight-dial function works very well for quickly getting a powder measure adjusted to new charge weights. Of course, once pet loads are established, their measure settings go on a cheat sheet taped on the wall near the powder measure.
I did something similar, but much less thorough. I simply recorded the micrometer setting for a given charge with a given powder, then when I want to load some more of a previously recorded powder/charge combo, I just dial in to the pre-recorded setting, double check the charge on my scale and move forward.
Your knowledge and system is admittedly much more impressive though.
If you have a "micrometer" adjust powder measure and a fancy calculator or software on your computer that does statistics, linear regression in particular, you can get set so you don't have to use a scale much at all after doing the initial work. What follows works best for loaders who buy large quantities of single powder lot numbers.
Here's what we do with a Redding BR-30 for a new lot of powder. Set the adjustment to 20. Not 20 grains, just the 20 mark on the dial. Fill the hopper with powder and throw some charges to stabilize the powder column. Now throw five charges and weigh them together. Divide by five. Record this average weight.
Adjust the dial to 25. Throw some stabilizing charges, returning them to the hopper. Throw five charges and weigh together. Divide by five. Record the average weight.
Adjust the dial to 30. Throw some stabilizing charges, returning them to the hopper. Throw five charges and weigh together. Divide by five. Record the average weight.
. . .
Adjust the dial to 75. Throw some stabilizing charges, returning them to the hopper. Throw five charges and weigh together. Divide by five. Record the average weight.
So now we have a collection of ordered pairs, each a match between a dial setting and a powder weight. If the powder measure is a good one and our throwing technique checks out, we can plot these ordered pairs on an x-y coordinate system and they should lie very nearly on a line. Here's where the calculator/computer comes in.
Enter the data into a stat package and do a linear regression. The result will be a function relating dial setting to powder weight for that lot of powder. Record this on a reference sheet taped to the powder jug.
I've done this for many jugs of powder, and using the weight-dial function works very well for quickly getting a powder measure adjusted to new charge weights. Of course, once pet loads are established, their measure settings go on a cheat sheet taped on the wall near the powder measure.
I did something similar, but much less thorough. I simply recorded the micrometer setting for a given charge with a given powder, then when I want to load some more of a previously recorded powder/charge combo, I just dial in to the pre-recorded setting, double check the charge on my scale and move forward.
Your knowledge and system is admittedly much more impressive though.
Oh yeah, just record and go directly to established settings for favorites.
Right after the last ice age when I got my first 22-250 and H4841 was way less than a buck a pound, I used what was then called scoop loading by me and my ground squirrel shooting buddies. we'd fill up a cigar box with 4831 and from that scoop up enough powder to fill the 22-250 case and then seat a bullet. Not the best system but it worked and it was fast and cheap. Cheap being the operative word as I had way more time than money. I learned early on that weighting powder charges to the last 1/10 grain wasn't all that important.
Dang it. Once again the Campfire has cost me money. I got an online subscription to Handloader and ordered a Redding thrower (My old RCBS has a rusted drum). I've also got a Wish List totaling $1800+ at Dillon. I dont have the funds to pull the trigger on that one yet.
Dang it. Once again the Campfire has cost me money. I got an online subscription to Handloader and ordered a Redding thrower (My old RCBS has a rusted drum). I've also got a Wish List totaling $1800+ at Dillon. I dont have the funds to pull the trigger on that one yet.
Dillon makes some real good stuff. While you're at it, you may consider picking up one of his other products.
John, These questions are for you and Pat if he cares to chime in. I noticed a variation in one post of .3 to .5 tenths of a grain when dropping using a powder measure is what was posted I believe in one of Pat's posts. What have you seen is the typical variation when measuring if and when you check drops randomly? Do you notice more variation depending on the type of powder. Seems like ball type is more consistent to me. Also, have you guys checked the differences in velocity spread when weighing each charge v: dropping and is there much if any difference in the accuracy of the load/loads. I bought a very sensitive load cell scale which is tough to even trickle to weigh powder charges on. It will weigh pencil powder to the kernel and I have tested over my Oehler just to see if being as precise as possible made any difference. Probably a exercise in accuracy futility but I did find that measuring as accurate as possible with the particular load I was working with was closer in velocity and spread by quite a bit. 60fps spread avarage with a Pact electronic scale and 25fps using a scale I spent way too much money on. Since I have pretty much quit worrying about sub half minute accuracy and have been shooting 12" square plates powder measure variation isn't as important but I was just wondering about some of the questions I asked. Thanks.
I checked my loading notes again and found I was mistaken on the 300 rounds per hour--but have done 250 or a little more a number of times. As noted before, this is without any case trimming. Trimming slows my output down to 200 or so per hour.
The tricks to pumping them out that fast on a turret press are these:
1) Neck-size or partial size only. This bypasses the need to lube the cases. I usually use bushing dies.
2) I start with the cases dumped into a small cardboard box with one side cut down so I can easily access the brass. After sizing I toos them in another, identical box.
3) Then I prime them with a Lee hand tool, dumping primers in the tool 100 at a time. After priming I put the cases in a 50-round loading block.
4) When the block is full I charge the cases with a measure. Since the only cases I load this much of are small varmint rounds, charging each case only takes a couple seconds.
5) When the cases in the block are all charged, I seat the bullets from a box that's tilted right next to the press, allowing me to grab bullets quickly. The loaded rounds are then placed into plastic ammo boxes, usually 100 rounders.
An essential part of the process is placing everything on the bench so there's a minimum amount of motion. Most handloaders (including me, before I really analyzed things) waste a lot of time due to the distance between tools and whatever they're taking the brass from and putting it into. After analyzing everything, I also quit putting brass into a loading block until it was time to drop the powder charges.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
John, I read the article and have a suggestion. I think the article would have been much more helpful if you had actually identified the Brand X measure. Also if you had compared the accuracy of different measures with the different powders you used then I'd know which measure would work best for the cartridges I reload most often. Say compare Redding,RCBS,Lyman,Harrell and Hornady.Maybe an idea for a future article? - Kurt
You're the second person to suggest (or ask) that I name the Brand X measure. I didn't for the very good reason that it's no longer made, and the company is still in business. There's no good reason to suggest a certain company makes an inferior product, even if the product was made 20+ years ago. There are too many nitwits in the world who would infer that EVERY product that company makes is inferior, and get pissed at me and the magazine.
If you want to test every brand of powder measure out there, go for it. It will take weeks of work (I spent one week just on the tests I did), and you won't get paid near enough for your time.
My article compared the results from a typical "affordable" powder measure (of which the world has plenty) with powder measures too expensive for average handloaders to consider--though they're about the price of a typical electronic measure. That's as far as I'm going to go, unless some gun magazine starts paying their writers $4000 per article.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I've had a Lee Dipper kit for a long time. They're pretty damn good. In fact I did an article on the .22 Hornet a while back and found one of the Lee Dippers throws a very consistent 13.0 grain charge of Li'l Gun, which has worked so well in several of my Hornets.
But no, the Lee Dippers were not included in this article, partly because there wasn't room, but mostly because the focus of the article was weighing charges versus using a good powder measure. The Lee Dippers work, but they're not nearly as versatile or accurate as a good measure.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Thanks John,I have a small kit put together that fints in a small zip up camera case.dipper, dies, primers ,Lee Hand press,bullets case tray,H-4895,cases. Inexpensive,and I can take anywhere . John what method did you use with the dippers? Just scoop it full,scoop and then use a credit card to rake across the top ?OR
That's as far as I'm going to go, unless some gun magazine starts paying their writers $4000 per article.
They probably figure that $3000 plus a free hunt is good enough.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
No, I haven't tried one of the Culver-style Harrel measures. They might work even better than the Redding, but the Harrel is designed to throw anything up to 120-grain loads. Redding has found through testing that a measure specifically designed for a smaller range is more accurate. My tests indicated they're right.
IIRC Harrel has different size measures. Or at least used to.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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