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Originally Posted by Ralphie
Originally Posted by moosemike
I guess there are horse lovers and there are "sort of horse lovers" who only love certain breeds and hate others with vitriol.


I think there is a big difference in philosophy among different groups. I usually see the different groups as those who treat their horses as pets and those who use them for work. There are dang few mustangs working on cattle ranches.

Mustangs have been lifted up by folks who treat horses as pets.


Agreed. I've seen a few decent mustangs but the majority were severely lacking in many aspects.

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I have a quarter, and he's got great feet. I've seen some good mustangs and mules. I want one with a butt wide and a lot of space between the ears and eyes both. lol
I can say that horse can be ridden without bucking.
Good luck on a 3k mile journey.

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Cocadori, Do you know the route these guys will be taking? If they come through the three corners area where WY, CO, and Utah meet, anywhere by Craig, Vernal, Baggs, or Rock Springs, I would like to meet them and help them refill their panniers. I might not appreciate mustangs, but I would like to help these young men if they could use it.

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I would like to make a few point that have not been made.

1. I wish these guys all the luck, hope that get to go on this journey.

2. people use to adopt mustangs because they were cheap. Now though if you watch Craigslist you can pick up a registered two year old filly for 600-700 hundred.

3. You know a quarter will mature to around 15 hands and around 1000 pounds, mustages are usually a lot smaller, and may physically have problems caring a larger rider.

4. These are not the mustangs of history. The mustangs of history roamed all of the Texas, Kansas, and Nebraska plains. They lived on good grass that now feeds cattle. Mustangs today live on scrub brush and some grass, they live in small pockets of land were a lot of inbreeding occurs. They are living on land no one wanted to buy so it became BLM land. Also a lot of these animals have draft horse blood, during the great depression many farmers would just set their horses free because they could not feed them.

5. Lastly you can't kill mustangs, which directly leads to an overpopulation of the ares they live on, just not enough grass for them all.

6.Personally I would like to see every horse, and cow taken off federal lands..................I would like to see those areas left for Deer, elk, and antelope...........yes I hunt.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by nealglen37
6.Personally I would like to see every horse, and cow taken off federal lands..................I would like to see those areas left for Deer, elk, and antelope...........yes I hunt.



Sure would inflate the cost of beef. A lt of ranchers feed those wild critters in the winter. Right now you can see hundreds of pronghorns on winter wheat, thousands of elk on winter ranch forage. What do you think would happen if the ranchers and farmers stopped that.Most BLM or NF land would not support the herds and in eastern Colorado almost all the pronghorn herds are on public land.


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Hey Mr. Sores:

I don't want to inflate the price of beef (corn and grain prices do that when the steers hit the feed lots). If you will read the post below you will see that eight of the top ten cattle producing states have no BLM lands. As for wanting wildlife on these lands I have as much say as the next guy..............my taxes pay for for those lands. If you don't want someone telling you what to feed or keep on your land...........buy a ranch.

http://www.cattlerange.com/cattle-graphs/all-cattle-numbers.html

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Nothing to do what other cattle producing states do,or me telling what others to feed on thier land.Just educating that the big elk herd states, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho,Montana, all contibute to feeding the wildlife in the winter on private grounds.

The attitude of removing all cattle and horses( btw sheep too) from public land shows a lack of knowledge of just how our wildlife herds depend on the private land for survival. Removing them from public land would neccesitate large herd reductions as the public land alone does not have the carrying capacity. It's a give an take situation that many do not understand. The Colorado DOW pays a lot of attention to the Agricultural community and trades off grazing on pubic land in return for those same animals to graze on private land.Without that, there would be larger payments to ranchers for crop damage. Cutting down the number of elk and deer on public land then would mean that, at least in Colorado,there would be no more OTC tags available.

Removing pronghorn from private land ,at least in eastern Colorado, would mean almost complete decimation of entire herds, leaving you no place to hunt them,if you chose Colorado to do so as the Commanche and Pawnee National Grasslands could not even come close to sustaing those herds.

Sometimes our wants and desires have consquences far beyond what we imagine.


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Here is a backstory to the post for the 3000 mile journey. Ben Masters is the young man behind the creation of this journey. He put together a similar trip a few years back traveling from New Mexico to the Montana. This trip was self-funded by group of college guys wanting to spend their summer break in the backcountry. This trip was a successful endeavor with many exciting tribulations. How many of you cowboys have been held at gunpoint while packing in the backcountry? Imagine spending weeks on in traveling in the backcountry when you reach the border of Yellowstone National Park and are confronted by Park police thinking you are escaped convicts.

Ben is a well skilled individual,he has been a licensed professional guide in Wyoming for two years working for an outfitter in the Throughfare which is one of the most remote spots in the continental United States. He is no strangers to hard work or the difficulties with dealing with stock in the backcountry. This won't be a green trip. I hope you all would help support this young man and his endeavor as I will.

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saddlesore,

Thank you for sharing your insight into the realities of raising stock in the West. Solid advice!

There are so many situations in life that fall into the Realm of " Unintended Consequences".




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If you take away federal and state grazing lands quite a few ranches will go up for sale.

How well will a ranch divided up into 10 acre weedettes support wildlife?

Toomanytracks,

Who did Ben Masters work for in the Thorofare? I'm not doubting you just curious, I work for Two Ocean Pass and have been through most of those camps.

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The last one before hawks rest. (east side)

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Sounds like Yellowstone outfitter's camp? I see those guys on the trail all the time. Unless you are talking about coming from the Cody side, then it has to be that Thorofare camp that Nate Vance had. I think Perry has it now?

Where in the World did the fascination with mustangs come from?

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Are u in the hoback

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No, Two Ocean Pass. Our trailhead is at Turpin Meadows, near Moran. We are up Atlantic creek, from the Yellowstone.

Our summer trips sometimes go by Hawks Rest and Bridger lake and up the thorofare and out over Deer Creek. Plus I've gone by Hawks Rest a number of times on my way sheep hunting.

Which camp are you talking about? The one on the yellowstone or the thorofare?

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Perry's camp. I thought u might have worked in the same camp as I in 08.

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Just to bump this up.

The May issue of Western Horseman has an article about this ride. They started earlier this month.


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Those sure are a better looking bunch of mustangs than the ones I saw them selling in Pauls Valley, OK. I sure do envy those guys.

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Link, although not exactly the same as the magazine article:

http://blogs.westernhorseman.com/unbranded/


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I used to pack elk hunters in Colorado. Lots of Texas hunters would show up every fall and make lots of mistakes that ruined some good horses.

I have never met any graduates of Texas A&M that knew what they were doing in a place like the Rocky Mtns. This group has a few strikes against them, but the guy running it sounds like he has some experience in the big mountains. I wish them all the luck in the world and God Speed because they are going to need it.


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Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by nealglen37
6.Personally I would like to see every horse, and cow taken off federal lands..................I would like to see those areas left for Deer, elk, and antelope...........yes I hunt.



Sure would inflate the cost of beef. A lt of ranchers feed those wild critters in the winter. Right now you can see hundreds of pronghorns on winter wheat, thousands of elk on winter ranch forage. What do you think would happen if the ranchers and farmers stopped that.Most BLM or NF land would not support the herds and in eastern Colorado almost all the pronghorn herds are on public land.



I would like to see the so called wild horse and donkey taken off of BLM land




I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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