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Too many missing bits of information. Rack FAL? Ball Ammo? How many shot group. Even though, I'll call b.s. The FAL is not known for it's accuracy. If some soldier here told me he qualified to be a sniper or DM by doing something like that with a rack M14 or rack M16...I'd call BS as well not only on the feat but the selection procedure as well.

It's possible for folks of the caliber that Rost and RGRX are, but they are highly trained and exceptional riflemen compared to folks like myself or even the great Lee24.

Last edited by ChrisF; 01/16/13.
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Lee 24.....HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Good one for sure Chris .


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NOoooooo had to go there eh? Well I guess Mahalo anyway.... grins.



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Hujambo Jeff?

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Years ago, Paul Matthews published in one of his books, that the aiming error, as he measured it, with good quality iron sights (tang sight and front aperture) is around 0.25 MOA. At 500 yds that is roughly 1.2" So a 4" group at 500 is not inconceivable, but I bet he couldn't average that.



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When evaluating a claim such as the OP described, you need to take into account many component errors to arrive with the system error or what is observed on the target. The aiming error is but one component. We know that there are folk that can hold hard at mid and long range with iron sights even with a shorter sight radius than what Mr Matthews used. But what it also takes are the other components to have minimal error as well. The main question I have is whether the rifle and ammo were consistently capable of such a feat. Like I mentioned earlier, the FAL is no M16 nor an M14. Environmental conditions would be another component error contributor. Measurement criteria (how many shots in the group?, how many groups? etc) is another significant unknown factor. Almost anyone can put two shots close together at distance once in their life.

Last edited by ChrisF; 01/17/13.
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Chris, I agree, but I only wanted to point out that the iron sights are really not the big handicap that the modern world often things they are. After that, scoped or irons are all the same as far as "component error"


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I agree and I disagree. Good quality sights, long sight radius...yes, iron's can be precise. I don't know about 1/4 MOA precise. But even granting that, you're talking about very specialized, limited cases and none of that apply to a FAL's battle sights.

Last edited by ChrisF; 01/18/13.
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yes, iron's can be precise.

Oh, yeah. That is especially true if there is an aperture as a component or if both front and rear are apertures.
My best group of any rifle that I have ever used (0.5" ctc) was shot with irons, albeit not at 500 yards.
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Seejambo..... had a minister from Tanzania with us for 3 months once... thats about all I recall though...


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Originally Posted by rost495
Now you've gotten a reply from one of the top shooters in the nation....

So, Jeff, who IS this "rgrx1276" character? It's not Sheri Gallagher is it? grin

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Originally Posted by ChrisF
....If some soldier here told me he qualified to be a sniper or DM by doing something like that with a rack M14 or rack M16...I'd call BS as well not only on the feat but the selection procedure as well......

Yeah, "snipers" don't usually impress me much anyway. I mean, they most always use telescopic sights and bipods and such.... wink Schit, even my grandmother can shoot fairly decent with all that mess.

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Oh ya?

You oven mitt/straight jacket boys can be half way out of the black and still score a "10" on them there Helen Keller targets ya all shoot on... whistle


grin

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Originally Posted by Triggernosis
Originally Posted by rost495
Now you've gotten a reply from one of the top shooters in the nation....

So, Jeff, who IS this "rgrx1276" character? It's not Sheri Gallagher is it? grin
Just to be clear, I never said that. Grins.


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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
Oh ya?

You oven mitt/straight jacket boys can be half way out of the black and still score a "10" on them there Helen Keller targets ya all shoot on... whistle


grin


Just think how small of a target we could shoot if the rules allowed us to open our eyes and use em while shooting.. wink


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Heads out to 300, chests to 1,000.

Does the job, no?


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I forget the group sizes,but even before the AR platforms came into vogue, I saw a lot of smallish groups shot with match grade M1A's and even National Match Garands at 600 yards.


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Originally Posted by BarryC
Heads out to 300, chests to 1,000.

Does the job, no?

Yep - Jeff and I can do that with open sights.

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Originally Posted by Triggernosis
Originally Posted by BarryC
Heads out to 300, chests to 1,000.

Does the job, no?

Yep - Jeff and I can do that with open sights.

grin

You gotta get yerself outta hock with "sherri" though, you're all on your own on that one. Not sure which one is gonna be after ya worse. eek


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Offhand, of course


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