Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots School me on the 1885 45-70

rdd, be warned on the butt plate. Anyone even asking the question of recoil of a 45/70 better get the right stock. In a proper gun, the 45/70 is a nice ol thumper all day long. I also, do not recommend a crescent (or any curved) steel butt plate in a 45/70. Big mistake!

I just received a paper copy of the 2013 Winchester catalog and dont see any hi walls or low wall listed! I requested the paper catalog after looking at the on line catalog. I did see a few low walls online, all rim fire?

That is a shame, given all the pain inflicting steel butt plate models available in the used market.

I was thinking of trying an 85 in a practical field configured gun. For me, I may research the price of those makers Brent listed.

The recoil isn't bad with the crescent butt plate if it is held correctly but, they tend to be worrysome in the benchrest position. I've killed several elk with a 510 grain bullet launched at 1650 fps from my B-78 and many deer with 300-450 grain bullets.

I'll have to remember that bit about the steel buttplates and the 45-70 next match we go to,, and expend a couple hundred rounds over a 2-3 day deal,, Have to be sure and spread the word to the other 100 or so folks using those vicious steel buttplates...

I have no experience with bench rest shooting (other that sighting in). But for a general hunting rifle, the steel buttplate in the B78's is a non-issue and doing a preseason sight in (10 or 15 rounds) is again no big deal...

But I could see where it would become an issue over what Ranch13 is speaking of... One good thing about steel buttplates is that they tend to center themselves very well in the same spot on ones shoulder... So after a couple hundred rounds that ONE spot would be bruised and tender :-)

Only when shooting prone, and thats why alot of folks use slip on recoil pads. Shooting the rest of the match from sitting and offhand doesn't bother much.

My primitive weapon is a Browning BPCR in .45-70. It has a steel butt plate and weighs 13#'s. I fitted Leupold bases and mounted a VX-3 3.5-10x40 CDS. I'm shooting TSX 250's at 2,550 fps, a Barnes 1895 load. Kick isn't that bad, but the gun is heavy.

From what I've read, the 1885 design is very strong, probably closer to a Ruger #1 than an 1895 Marlin. This gun is case hardened, has a 30" Badger barrel and beautiful, high grade Am. Walnut.

The CDS is set up for this load and I can hit 300 yd. target all day long. It's slightly over MOA out to 300, shooting around 3 1/2"-4" at that distance.

This load in a lighter gun with "C" butt plate could get pretty "interesting", especially off a bench. This TSX is a huge HP and seems to open very well, especially at that velocity. Last weekend, I killed a 155# doe walking across a food plot. In and out double lung, decimating the top of the heart. She ran 30 yds, spewing blood. Double shoulder shot would have dropped her, but I was meat hunting and didn't want to ruin both front quarters, which is what I think would have happened.

DF

I too have a Browning BPCR in 4570. It is a dream to shoot. Those are NOT the steel plates I am referring too. Those are steel shotgun style butt plate with a pistol grip stock. Wonderful! It is a very heavy gun, rrd did not mention weight. BPCR's are a real fun gun and excellent / excellent sights included.

The killers are those narrow, crescent plates. I may have been clear, it not the material it is the shape. I did use the word "Crescent".

I'd like too see Browning (now Winchester) offering a hunting configured bbl length and weight 1885 with a nice comfy butt plates and stocks like the BPCR's.

BTW, Keep in mind this is the question



And I am saying
1. Select the most comfortable stock configuration because that is major factor in felt recoil.
2. The hi walls are no longer listed in the catalog!

Doesn't matter much whether it a crescent or the military butt, if the rifle is positioned on your shoulder correctly the recoil is no worse than with any other non shock absorbing butt plate.

I pulled these pics off the web. I dont have photo bucket, hope this works:





There is a world of difference in recoil and shoot-ability between the above two stock configurations.

I have shoot both types.Regardless of technique or loads first is easier than below. I also own and shoot calibers up to 505 Gibbs. The stock design is critical. Lets give a new guy a break and get him squared away on the best footing with a nice well behaved 45-70. I believe you, when you say, you have mastered a technique. Not for me and I dont think it good advise for a new guy.

Enjoyment with 45/70 can lead to even bigger and more fun stuff.

I disagree. There is a technique to shooting the lower stock shape. Most folks don't understand it and do not do it.

Yes, I have and use both. And have shot them a whole bunch in different positions. They both work and have different advantages.

My crescent butt rifle is a .45-100. Typically loaded with as much as 107.5 grs of 1.5fg Swiss and bullets up to 550 grs. I've owned and shot if for.... over 15 yrs anyway. I don't really recall when I first go it.

Your 45-100 sounds like a hand full for me. You guys must be on to something.

But, do you believe this is good way for a new guy to get started, (in 45/70 I mean)? I can not shoot that. I admit, I dont understand it. I have to believe, I am not alone.

I think to promote the single shot sport and the 45/70 we want to see a new guy get a good easy fun start.

One other detail on those stocks the top stock has less drop. I am probably making an arse of myself at this point. So; I let others contribute and let my 2c sit for what it is worth.

With a name like Fourbore and owning a .505 Gibbs, you must be a long lost Gunner 500 cousin.

Maybe he yo brother with another mother...!?

DF

This is a Uberti 1885 in 30-30 that I bought new ~ 7 years ago to rebarrel. I never shot it, and then a few months ago I put a Shilen select match stainless #3 taper 26" barrel on it in 257 Roberts Ackley Improved rimmed.

The only hard parts were:
1) Cutting the extractor relief cut on the barrel breech. I copied the take off barrel, and it was still hard. [see my above sketch of that cut]
2) Design and fabricate a barrel mounted scope mount / bi pod mount /for end mount, that does not flex the barrel.



Personally, I am done with the 45/70 full house loads. It kicks too hard.

I still kill raccoons with 45/70, but with 1 gr of compressed Red Dot and 458" 145 gr Collar button bullet Lyman mold #457130 from Western Bullet co MT. The case is filled with steel or Aluminium, with a flash hole up the center.
This does 440 fps, sounds like a BB gun, and will go through the rib cage of a raccoon and get the vitals.

What does it all mean?
Any gunsmith with a lathe could rebarrel a Rem 700 or a 98 Mauser.
You will need a gunsmith that is also handy with the mill to rebarrel an 1885.

Y yeah DF, I have a 500 Nitro as my namesake, and an 8-Bore rifle to boot LOL, gotta be another baby momma in there somewhere.

Gunner

7-7.5 pound .45-90's with crescent buttplates can be attention getters, even with 300 gr bullets and blackpowder loads. I fired this one 12 shots on Sunday, and another 7 with a .54 Hawken the same day. My shoulder is still a mite tender today.



In contrast the Ruger #1 .45-70 with "Ruger Only" full house smokeless loads is noticeable, but doesn't give me a sore shoulder. If we're talking a more normal weight of rifle, at least 9 pounds it would be easier to handle, but the prospective buyer will have to decide for himself if the gun/loads/buttplate are an acceptable combo.

That'll dang sure work Tex, plus the big 500 gr JD bullets will hold more lube and hopefully shoot better for ya, specially with a prescribed load of KIK 2F, although recoil may be a tetch more.

Gunner

Hey, if Gunner admits it kicks, you sho betta hold onto yo jock when you "tetch that thing off..."

He shoots a .505 Gibbs for target practice out on his Okie ranch. Rocks, varmints, etc. are all in jeopardy...

He doesn't even mention recoil until he starts talking about his 8 bore...

DF

That's only because I have recoil induced mental disabilities DF. <G>

Gunner

Well, from what I remember, right now it kicks about like your 50-110 - the one that distresses skinny guys. So 500's may distress me, too.

Anyway, off to try to find some KIK locally.

Tex if you cant find it and want me to pick you up some and bring it to the hog hunt let me know.

Gunner