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Doc! The mission location was east of present Menard. The historic site is the location of the presidio. Which was the largest Spanish garrison in Texas from 1757 to 1770. I believe the mission was three Spanish leagues from the presidio.

Reason the distance between the two location is the priest did not want the soldados corrupting the neophytes with their worldly ways! There was always a token force of 2 or 3 soldados at the mission. But the garrison at the presidio numbered almost 300 counting family members.
I remember the morning son found a trade knife blade in his unit as well as an pronghorn horn cap!!!! Cool times!!

Thanks for thoughts and prayers for wifey. Minor setback. Blood infection. Seems we spent a lot of time in hospital.

Glad she's doing better, KW!

You're right about the separation of the mission from the presidio, of course... I was lumping them together for brevity, but I do recall reading at the historic site that the mission was located some ways downriver. Beautiful country along there, BTW... great motorcycle touring roads!

IIRC the Franciscans throughout Tejas tended to mistrust the soldados' "worldly ways", as you so tactfully put it!

Doc,

The fact that those skills are still being taught and encouraged is a great thing!

The 200yd bow shot, while unusual, is not unknown. The English longbowmen were required to practice shooting at targets the size of a man's head at that distance and were effective at far greater ranges.
The English longbow, however, is of much greater draw weight than the Plains Indian bows and used much longer, heavier arrows.

The sheer number of smaller stone points, commonly referred to as "bird points" shows that shooting at small, rapidly moving targets was a rule rather than an exception, leading to the conclusion that these were highly skilled archers, capable of a high degree of precision.

Ed

Missed this thread on TX history. My great great uncle came to TX with Stephen F. Austin. He got a spanish land grant near what is now Kirbyville, TX and his name is still on the surveys in that area.

He later signed the TX Decleration of Independence and fought at the battle of San Jacinto (one of approximately 10 to do both) and returned to San Augustine afterwards and settled where he became chief justice.

I have a number of books on local history that mention him and his family.

My great uncle who shares his name was at the TX centential celebration at San Jacinto in 1936 and if I live long enough I'll make the 200 year one in 2036. However as I'm the last male and no kids at age 42 there probably won't be anymore after that.

Just thought I would add some useless info.

My grandmother keeps it pretty up to date and she was a big wig in the DRT at one time.

some research into the protiens left on bird points indicates that they were actually most often used on deer sized game....smaller point equaling grater penetration....

and on the english long bow, they were a poundage that most modern bow hunters would think unreal....believe they started at 150#'s.....which is part of the reason crossbows became so popular, instead of a lifetime of training and conditioning to be a longbowman a day or two made you a ok crossbowman....

The skill of the English longbowmen, and their deadliness in warfare, is amazing to contemplate from our historical perspective. A bowman could easily kill an armored opponent at 200 or more yards, and the deadliness of their volley fire was greatly feared by the French.

Their French enemies took a more pragmatic view than we do today, however, and routinely amputated the index and middle fingers of captured bowmen.

Still meandering around Texas history, coming up with new (to me) stuff all the time. Here's an incident of outright theft, vandalism and thuggery: Laucelot Smithers, soundly beaten for coming to a distressed woman's defense.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fsm87

On November 2, 1835, Smither was severely beaten by a group of volunteers who passed through Gonzales robbing houses and terrorizing the town. He was trying to aid Susanna W. Dickinson, who had been driven from her home by the vandals. One month later, the provisional government of Texas authorized payment of $270 to Smither to cover property lost to Casta�eda and the vandals at Gonzales.

Mrs Dickinson of course would famously survive the Alamo, her life reading like a character from Lonesome Dove.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fdi06

Susanna tried matrimony three more times before settling into a stable relationship. She wed Francis P. Herring on December 20, 1838, in Houston. Herring, formerly from Georgia, had come to Texas after October 20, 1837. He died on September 15, 1843. On December 15, 1847,

Susanna married Pennsylvania drayman Peter Bellows (also known as Bellis or Belles) before an Episcopalian minister. In 1850 the couple had sixteen-year-old Angelina living with them. But by 1854 Susanna had left Bellows, who charged her with adultery and prostitution when he filed for divorce in 1857. Susanna may have lived in the Mansion House Hotel of Pamelia Mann, which was known as a brothel, before marrying Bellows. The divorce petition accuses her of taking up residence in a "house of ill fame." Nevertheless, Susanna received praise from the Baptist minister Rufus C. Burleson for her work nursing cholera victims in Houston, where he baptized her in Buffalo Bayou in 1849.

Susanna's fifth marriage was long-lasting. She married Joseph William Hannig (or Hannag), a native of Germany living in Lockhart, in 1857. They soon moved to Austin, where Hannig became prosperous with a cabinet shop and later a furniture store and undertaking parlor; he also owned a store in San Antonio. Susanna became ill in February 1883 and died on October 7 of that year. Hannig buried her in Oakwood Cemetery, and even though he married again, he was buried next to Susanna after his death in 1890.



Birdwatcher

Bump fer anyone who cares to re-read all this....

Presidio San Luis de la Amarillias (San Saba) brings back great memories from when archaeologist son was finishing up his graduate work!

Thanks Birdy!

Postscript!!

Grab Tom and come up for a visit!

Holy thread resurrection! I missed it the first time around, so I'm glad that it was bumped.

My dad came for a visit this week and brought a copy of the book for me to read. Both my folks highly recommended it. Imagine my surprise when Doc's thread is bumped four days later.

You'll like it....one of the best books I've ever read.

Thanks Birdie,
I had forgotten all about this one

One might hope that some of the Texians (natives and newcomers) who have joined the 'fire since this was originally posted might enjoy the trip back through time.

As the wife moved to their area this past fall, I read a book over the winter about the Modocs and their little war. Written by a descendant.

http://www.naturegraph.com/new/modoc.html

I'm one of those that likes to find out about the history/archaeology etc of any area I end up. It's time for me to dig up my copy of the Journals of the Corps of Discovery as I now live in the area of the Snake River, near the location of one of their camps.

Hope you're enjoying the spring before the hot weather arrives for real.

Geno

Great books. While on Fehrenbach, throw in "This Kind of War". It is one of the better volumes on the Korean War.

Good lord....please stop resurrecting this thread about about a bunch of rotten-wood eating, baby raping animals. Apologists may change history, but they won't change facts,

Great thread! Thanks for resurrecting.
I drive across Texas all the time in the big rig. I am spending the night in Laredo at the TA Truck Stop.
I am fascinated by tales of the Comanche. They were the biggest and baddest Indian tribe in our country.
Fantastic horsemen, they were master buffalo hunters.

Love to read about conflict between them and the Texas Rangers.

And, just 11 miles from where I am is the town of Nuevo Laredo. And why did they need a New Laredo?
Because, back in the 1700's, the Comanche came down here and burned Laredo to the ground.
Spanish figured the new town on the other side of the river might be safer from the Comanche.

Plus I love to read about the kidnapping of the Parker girl and the life and times of Quanah Parker. Fascinating.

Cynthia was just 5 years old when kidnapped so she had it pretty good, she was inducted into the tribe will full rights as a Comanche citizen.
There were two girls aged 18 and 19 kidnapped at the same time, both married. Life was not so good for them, they were not adopted into the tribe but were used as sex slaves, and as just plain slaves. All night, four or five warriors would screw them at will.
All day the women Comanches forced them to do the worst of tasks, scraping buffalo hides, hauling firewood etc. And, if they got uppity, a squaw would just slice off their nose.

A living hell for a 19 year old white woman kidnapped by the Comanche.