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#7727885 - 05/10/13 01:17 PM Finally shot the Lott!
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
I finally got caught up on some things and snuck to the range today to shoot my Lott for the first time. My first big bore so I don't know how good these things are supposed to shoot.

I fired 5 rounds messing around with the sights and then a final 3-shot group to see what I could do. I did all this standing on my hind legs and shooting over my chronograph. It blew the diffusers off about 5 times in 7 shots!

After sighting it in, I managed a 5" group from 100 yards with factory iron sights. I was shooting 500 grain cast bullets at 2200 fps. I suppose I can crank them up a little but probably won't. I was amazed at how easy it clean. 5 wet patches and it was clean!

I love guns that push back!!





a dark cell phone photo...


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#7728364 - 05/10/13 05:05 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
colorado Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 1818
Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Enjoy!
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#7728374 - 05/10/13 05:11 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
GuyM Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 4208
Loc: Washington - dry side
I think you got him! grin

Glad it's working out well. That's a lot (pun intended) of cartridge...

Guy

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#7728391 - 05/10/13 05:19 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: GuyM]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
I think it would work well on terrorists or kidnappers!
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#7728525 - 05/10/13 06:18 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
gunchamp Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 3453
Loc: mountains of central PA
I had 3 458 lotts. They are a hoot to shoot. Takes some concentration to put em where they need to be. Alot of fun though. I presently shoot a sub 8lb 375 RUM. Its an azz kicker. Always puts a smile on my face. smile
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#7729347 - 05/11/13 06:05 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: gunchamp]
fourbore Offline
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Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 126
Loc: NewEngland USA
Is that a Winchester M70? I did not think you could get a Winchester in the Lott. Custom?

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#7729639 - 05/11/13 08:30 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
ColKlink Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 2675
Loc: Georgia, CSA
Quote:
My first big bore so I don't know how good these things are supposed to shoot.


I think you will be surprised at how accurate most big bores can be and in my experience they are easier to get to shoot than smallbores. You can shoot a scoped Lott from the bench, it just requires a different technique to avoid injury. My Lott will shoot into less than an inch at 100 yds easily if I do my part.
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#7729742 - 05/11/13 09:27 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
jryoung Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 1831
Loc: Unable to determine due to vel...
Originally Posted By: dennisinaz
I did all this standing on my hind legs and shooting over my chronograph.


I didn't realize your avatar picture was actually you!
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#7729888 - 05/11/13 11:01 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: jryoung]
Johnny_Dangerfield Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Way Up North
A badger armed with a .458 Lott sure ain't nothin' to mess with! shocked laugh

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#7729910 - 05/11/13 11:14 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: Johnny_Dangerfield]
Johnny_Dangerfield Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Way Up North
Here's my .458 Lott, it's a Sako AV (converted from .416 Rem. mag). Has a 23" barrel and shoots 350gr TSX bullets at 2600 fps MV within 1 MOA accuracy. cool



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#7730662 - 05/11/13 06:13 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: Johnny_Dangerfield]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
Winchester made Lotts.

I noticed that the LBT type cast bullets that I was shooting don't feed very nicely. Trying do decide if it is a bullet problem or a rifle problem. That sharp edge just doesn't want to start sliding up the feed ramp without a pretty good push. Anyone ever shoot these flat tipped bullets?
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#7731734 - 05/12/13 08:51 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
fourbore Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 126
Loc: NewEngland USA
Quote:
Winchester made Lotts.


I would like to know more. I have a CZ550 in Lott and pretty much regret not choosing the Ruger when I had both in my hands. I been waiting patiently for Winchester to offer the Lott. I dont have gunsmith bucks, but I am patient. Now; I hear Winchester offered a Lott. When was that? I have not seen any at the online auctions or Cabelas. I prefer not to go the online route, but been casually looking for a while. I see nothing of Lotts in the old Winchester catalogs. I may have easily missed them. Anyway this is a pleasant surprise. Or did they make the Lott like the made the chapstick(sp) - Custom shop only.

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#7731888 - 05/12/13 10:04 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: fourbore]
ColKlink Offline
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Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 2675
Loc: Georgia, CSA
The M70s I have seen have all come out of the Winchester custom shop. You really don't need a lot of gunsmith bucks to have a M70 in Lott if that is what you want. Mark Penrod will re-chamber a M70 Safari Express and re-stamp the barrel ".458 Lott" for about $125-$150. At least that's what he charged me the last time I had him do one. I think the only reason Winchester insists on chambering the production M70 in .458 Win is stubbornness because they designed it. They need to admit to themselves that the Lott is a superior round and there is really no reason for choosing a .458 Win over a .458 Lott, very few folks would do so, and give their customers what they want.


Edited by ColKlink (05/12/13 10:08 AM)
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#7731973 - 05/12/13 10:41 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: ColKlink]
fourbore Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 126
Loc: NewEngland USA
Thanks Col,
I agree with your assessment and yet I would have though under new ownership that Winchester would be more open to customer wants and offer the 458 Lott. New ideas, like building guns is Japan.

This is the logic: build the 1892, 85, 86 and 95 in Japan and all the while refuse to offer a 458 Lott out of misplaced pride in the past. Whats that? Dont get me wrong - I have a Jap 92 and 85. They are fine guns. I wish they were made here. So be it. I am just saying times change and the Lott is the winner.

Yes stubborness.


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#7732078 - 05/12/13 11:32 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: fourbore]
ColKlink Offline
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Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 2675
Loc: Georgia, CSA
I agree. Whether the folks at Winchester want to admit it or not the Lott has become the standard chambering in .45 cal, far and away over everything else. I'd be willing to bet there are more Lotts in the hands of African PHs than any other chambering. For me, I cannot think of one reason why I would want a .458 Win over a Lott and I'll bet they would sell a lot more M70 Safari Expresses if they understood that fact.
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#7734742 - 05/13/13 02:38 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: ColKlink]
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 10049
Originally Posted By: ColKlink
The M70s I have seen have all come out of the Winchester custom shop. You really don't need a lot of gunsmith bucks to have a M70 in Lott if that is what you want. Mark Penrod will re-chamber a M70 Safari Express and re-stamp the barrel ".458 Lott" for about $125-$150. At least that's what he charged me the last time I had him do one. I think the only reason Winchester insists on chambering the production M70 in .458 Win is stubbornness because they designed it. They need to admit to themselves that the Lott is a superior round and there is really no reason for choosing a .458 Win over a .458 Lott, very few folks would do so, and give their customers what they want.


I am no expert on big bores but this is my take too and why when I went 458, I went Lott. After all, you can shoot the Win cartridge in the Lott chamber so, as far as I know, there is no advantage in the 458 Win (if I need correcting in that let me know).

The recoil in a properly built rifle is "manageable" and not the worst kicker I've been kicked by.


Edited by George_De_Vries_3rd (05/13/13 06:08 PM)

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#7735738 - 05/13/13 08:33 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: George_De_Vries_3rd]
mauserand9mm Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Queensland Australia
The 458WM can have jamming issues in many Mauser action rifles - basically a round with a large blunt projectile (eg 500gn RN) can get caught up the the extractor recess inside the action when fed from the LHS of a staggered magazine (RH rifle). Basically the case is too short for what it is, and results in a feed angle that allows this issue to occur. The longer case of the Lott changes the feed angle and avoids the jamming problem.

I think the Lott is what the 458WM was supposed to be.


Edited by mauserand9mm (05/13/13 08:42 PM)

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#7737056 - 05/14/13 10:36 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: mauserand9mm]
CTDolan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/13
Posts: 17
I cannot for the life of me fathom why gunmakers have the issue of getting certain (factory) rounds to feed in their actions. Why the ____ can't CZ, or Winchester, or Ruger get over these issues? Here is my experience:

1. 1987 M70 Safari Grade .458 Win Mag (push-feed)...wouldn't feed the then 510-grain soft nose to save it's life

2. CZ550 .458 Lott...this one has an issue feeding blunt bullets as well (and by the way, aren't they pretty much all blunt, in this caliber?)

3. Early Hawkeye Alaskans in .416 Ruger...notorious for feeding issues, WITH HORNADY FACTORY AMMO!

Anyway, the above are just some examples. How hard is it to get the geometry right, and then just do it? Seems as though it shouldn't be that difficult to me.


Edited by CTDolan (05/14/13 10:37 AM)

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#7738678 - 05/14/13 08:17 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: CTDolan]
mauserand9mm Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Queensland Australia
With your CZ550 458 Lott, is it just the rounds from the left hand side of the magazine that jam? I understood that CZ-USA convert all the 458WM to 458 Lott to avoid the jamming issue.

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#7739114 - 05/15/13 05:25 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: mauserand9mm]
CTDolan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/13
Posts: 17
Yep, but it's corrected now.

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#7742662 - 05/16/13 12:28 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: CTDolan]
Golfswithwolves Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 178
Owners of a rifle in this caliber can always answer the question "Do you shoot a lot?" with a resounding YES.

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#7742688 - 05/16/13 12:44 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: Johnny_Dangerfield]
southwind Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 919
Loc: Kansas
You can order a Lott through the Winchester custom shop, or at least you used to be able to.

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#7742721 - 05/16/13 01:02 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: southwind]
THOMASMAGNUM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 7459
Loc: Arizona
Hey Dennis, did you decide how to scope it yet?

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#7750537 - 05/19/13 03:24 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: THOMASMAGNUM]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
I haven't scoped it yet. It has bases but no rings. I need to get some rings and put a scope on it if just for load development.
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#7751333 - 05/19/13 08:31 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
THOMASMAGNUM Offline
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Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 7459
Loc: Arizona
I have an El Paso Weaver K4 with a post & crosshair on my 450/400 N.E. 3" and it seems to be working pretty well. Its certainly no precision reticle, but it works well enough for its purpose.
I hope to see you shooting that monster in Q.

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#7753808 - 05/20/13 07:17 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: THOMASMAGNUM]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: AZ
You will!!
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#7948289 - 08/02/13 09:15 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: southwind]
colmacivor Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 362
Loc: Northern Arizona
I have one of each, 458 and 458 lott..Both are on pre-64 actions and will feed well with a round nose, blunt nose or pointed bullet..both built by frank Wells and he really works on the rails and follower so they will feed properly. It's important if you are going to mix your rounds..jm

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#7951237 - 08/03/13 02:54 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: Johnny_Dangerfield]
bcd Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 1925
So what will a lott do that a 458 win cant????

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#7951253 - 08/03/13 03:02 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: bcd]
bcd Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 1925
Finn used a 375 H&H and 458 win mag to take the big 5 and he certainly had access to the 458 lott even though it was a wildcat cartridge until 2002. (When Finn died in 2000 after a long battle with cancer, he passed on to his son Harald his .375 H&H and to his other son Erik, his .458 win mag. He left these two rifles as a legacy to pass on to the children and grandchildren.) While other gun writers were condemning one cartridge or another as totally useless Finn would objectively test them against measurable means. So why didn't Finn switch to the lott from the win mag if the lott is a better cartridge? Due to the lott not being a commercially available cartridge at the time? I wouldn't think that would be the sole criteria.

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#7951929 - 08/03/13 07:38 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: bcd]
rattler Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 25999
Loc: NE Montana
if you actually have some of Finn's books....like i do.....he talks bout bullets coming apart with the 458 Win so he didnt think it was an all over success.....he also speaks highly of the 460 Weatherby....


Edited by rattler (08/03/13 07:38 PM)
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#7968652 - 08/09/13 07:15 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: rattler]
IndyCA35 Offline
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Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 3413
Loc:
The .458 Lott will get you exactly 70 fps more with the same pressure as a .458 WM. It will also increase the chance that you will short stroke it while working the bolt.

Thus I can't see any reason for the Lott.
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#7968742 - 08/09/13 07:38 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: rattler]
setch Offline
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Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 1462
Loc: Dutch Hill
I'm a bit off topic I know...but does the lott need a magnum action (like the rigby) or does it run a long action?

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#7973807 - 08/11/13 06:02 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: setch]
IndyCA35 Offline
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Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 3413
Loc:
The Lott doesn't need a magnum action. You can use a Model 70 action if you lengthen the magazine well.
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Ever wonder why Conservatives are identified with the right and Liberals with the left?

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2

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#7974323 - 08/11/13 08:45 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: IndyCA35]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
Strain gauge test shows my Lott gets 120-140 fps more velocity with the same pressure with 480 grain Hornady DGXs.

Shot about 30 rounds through it Saturday and the 480s are pretty accurate but probably not a very good reliable bullet terminally.
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#7975926 - 08/12/13 01:38 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
realitycheck Offline
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Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 181
Loc: all over
The Lott has a definite ballistic advantage over the 458WM with any off the shelf ammo, or any ammo it seems, in terms of velocity with a 500 grain bullet. Thats really cool you fired a few off.What next?


Edited by realitycheck (08/12/13 04:59 PM)

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#7976688 - 08/12/13 05:51 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: realitycheck]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
Need to shoot some critters grin
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#7976933 - 08/12/13 06:55 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
realitycheck Offline
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Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 181
Loc: all over
Originally Posted By: dennisinaz
Need to shoot some critters grin


Yes!!

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#7978946 - 08/13/13 02:03 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: realitycheck]
AussieGunWriter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 4677
I would be very interested if some expert could list the animals that could be killed with the LOTT and not be killed with identical bullets loaded in the .458 and with identical bullet placement.

The list would be so short the only thing left would be reading between the lines?
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#7979070 - 08/13/13 02:44 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
realitycheck Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 181
Loc: all over
Originally Posted By: dennisinaz
Need to shoot some critters grin


you ever shoot a 416rigby?

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#7981978 - 08/14/13 11:32 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: AussieGunWriter]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
Originally Posted By: AussieGunWriter
I would be very interested if some expert could list the animals that could be killed with the LOTT and not be killed with identical bullets loaded in the .458 and with identical bullet placement.

The list would be so short the only thing left would be reading between the lines?



NONE- but the same thing could be said if you compared it to a 30-06, it is just a little more better laugh

Yes, I have shot a 416 Rigby but not at a critter. Biggest thing I have shot at a critter is a 340 Wby or 45-70 depending on your definition of bigger.
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.


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#7982037 - 08/14/13 11:52 AM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: dennisinaz]
realitycheck Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 181
Loc: all over
Originally Posted By: dennisinaz
Originally Posted By: AussieGunWriter
I would be very interested if some expert could list the animals that could be killed with the LOTT and not be killed with identical bullets loaded in the .458 and with identical bullet placement.

The list would be so short the only thing left would be reading between the lines?



NONE- but the same thing could be said if you compared it to a 30-06, it is just a little more better laugh

Yes, I have shot a 416 Rigby but not at a critter. Biggest thing I have shot at a critter is a 340 Wby or 45-70 depending on your definition of bigger.



I'VE NEVER been to Africa nor shot any of these calibers,but so far as i can tell by the research ive read online,is that the Lott reaches the "magical"23-2400 fps with 500 grain bullets and its advantage over the 458 Win is basically strictly limited to elephant head shots. According to the vast majority of research ive read,thats the opinion i perceive.


***OP:i was asking about the 416 rigby because i was wondering on the difference of recoil between it and the Lott. Like,is the 458Lotts recoil so much more than the Rigby? Does it take A LOT more time to reacquier target for follow ups with the Lott?

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#8013595 - 08/25/13 05:28 PM Re: Finally shot the Lott! [Re: realitycheck]
dennisinaz Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7223
Loc: AZ
One would have to shoot identical or at least largely similar rifles side-by-side to really definitively state which recoils more. The math says the Lott has a good margin more recoil, thing is, the Rigby takes a magnum action which generally translates to a bigger, heavier gun; the Lott is pretty easy to carry in the Mod 70 platform. I look forward to taking it to Africa.
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