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I prefer to query people here rather than other, more dedicated internet forums. For various reasons.

I am making a blanket type inquiry on general Toughness of dogs. And by toughness, I am meaning things such as pain tolerance, environmental tolerance, or simply the lack of being swayed or affected by being uncomfortable.

I have had just a small handful of hunting dogs. Both were Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. The first was a female, the second was a male. I don't recall much of the female. I was very young and the dog was given away without my consent......life lessons learned there. The male I had as an adult. He had a high pain tolerance. But some seperation anxiety that got in the way of really testing much else.

Though not a hunting dog, my current adult dog is an Australian Cattle Dog. To me, he is the standard to be judged against. His pain tolerance is off the charts. I've seen him continue about his business with flesh hanging. He has broken ice to play Fetch. Will find water to lie down in to cool off in January. Just an all around tough guy.

My current puppy is the opposite. He is a softy. Wasnt expecting it, but he is. He needs to paw and fluff up a perfect nest before he lays down. Every place he lays must be padded. If we are sorting laundary for weekend chores, he is found coiled up, camoflauged in with the Darks....sound asleep. He is shivering immediately after getting in the water. The same water I am standing in up to the Blue Line myself in shorts. I don't find it at all cold.

In my experience, this is the dog. Not much you can train or change about it.

Thoughts or experiences? Of course this is the internet, so I would not expect anything less than...."My dog was breaking 2 inches of ice duck hunting in North Dakota last January...it was -5 degrees that day".

Last edited by Jesse Jaymes; 06/22/13.

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How old is the puppy? I wouldn't characterize him or give up on him too soon. I don't disagree with you that dogs, like humans, have some ingrained or genetic behavioral traits that they'll always carry but I've seen a couple of wimpy pups that changed a lot with training, encouragement and maturity. They both ended up with a desire to hunt in any conditions.


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Not giving up at all. I really like him. He is just not at all "gritty".

Was just generally inquiring to others.

I know nothing of the "refined" breeds like Britts and Setters. But I label them as not as "gritty". I could easily be proven wrong.

Do you think male vs female has much to do with it?


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I don't know for sure but from what I've seen it doesn't seem to make much difference. We've got a female Lab that will be 12 in August. When she was about three years old my wife said, before she's done there could be a picture of her under the word bitch in the dictionary. She wasn't too far off.

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Pussed up paw from a foxtail imbedded. One day of slightly limping.
[Linked Image]
Really cold one morning going hunting.
[Linked Image]
A pupcicle.
[Linked Image]
But a real softy.
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Quote
My dog was breaking 2 inches of ice duck hunting in North Dakota last January...it was -5 degrees that day".


When it gets -5 here, I can walk on water and not break it much less my dog. grin miles


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Tough isn't always what a Dog can take. More often it's what a Dog is willing to give.

How about giving 4 solid hours at 11 and 12 years old? How about doing it with kidney function of around 15%? How about getting her last Vet checkup and the Vet says I can't believe this Dog is still here. She is doing great. Then you tell the Vet no she isn't and he does another kidney check and he comes back and says there is nothing left. It's time or it's going to get ugly real quick.

How about Her last Ruffed Grouse being rocked up high and setting its wings for a glide to who knows where? Two other Dogs looked for a bit and came back shortly. She was gone for over a half hour. We both gave up and started calling her in. A little later she shows up with a dead Grouse.

How about in your prime you look like this?

[Linked Image]




And at the end like this, but never quit?



[Linked Image]



Yea she was tough. I'd also venture to say she had more than a little grit.
Somebody said it before me, but it holds true. "Damn fine Dog."

Last edited by battue; 06/22/13.

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Wow, what a dog.
Hope mine turns out to have half as much.

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I think it is more desire then tough in most cases. Desire is breed into a dog. A person can make a dog tough, but you'll be hardpressed to make a dog have desire.

I had an English Pointer that didn't care how cold it was outside when it was time to hunt. However when it was cold out and time for him to go do his business you had to find him and drag him out there.


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That's what I term "game" mixed with drive. And that's how this little pup is heading. Just like you describe-forced off the porch to piss in the rain, but overcome fear of even knowing how to swim to follow scent out into the deep cattails


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When I was in high school I had a golden retriever/yellow lab cross named Jake. He was the toughest and most athletic dog I have ever been around and he would have died rather than quit on me. Even near the end of his life with his kidneys shutting down and terrible arthritis you couldn't walk past him with a shotgun and he was up and ready to go. When he died, it was only the second time in 25 years I ever seen my dad cry.


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who gives a [bleep] about the stuff that goes wrong

Tough to be pissed when God gives you dogs


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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Pretty tough. This one caught a stob in the woods. Didn't stop her from keeping on training, until I saw the giant hole in her side. She laid there perfectly still while I shaved her and stitched her back up. Vet gave me a stapler after this one. LOL.

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That seems pretty tough to me. Was that just behind rib cage or over it? Just curious and nice job sewing. I guess I need to get a kit to keep in the truck.

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I have a year old Catahoula that appears to get tougher by the week. As she ages, she gets tougher and braver. It will be interesting to see where she levels out. She is a little girl at about 40 pounds, but she is a lot of dog for her size!

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I've got a 45lb 2yr old female Springer who is as gritty of a dog as I've ever seen. Springers don't really have coats made for duck hunting, but she spent several mornings with me last season in a neoprene vest and covered in ice. Her pain tolerance is extremely high, but she takes a soft hand. A gruff word or a beep on her collar is normally all it takes to snatch her back to reality.

I've also got a 10yr old lab with bad arthritis. I haven't hunted him much at all in the last 2 years, but he wants to go just as bad as when he was a puppy. And he'll still go all day if you let him, he's just stove up real bad the next day. He's another tough one. I'm honestly surprised that he's never hurt himself he goes so hard.


"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." ~ Aldo Leopold
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Here is the Jackal, a.k.a. the Grim Reaper with my daughter. He is 52 pounds of cold twisted blue steel. There is no quit in him. Will never have another like him.

[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by 43Shooter
How old is the puppy? I wouldn't characterize him or give up on him too soon. I don't disagree with you that dogs, like humans, have some ingrained or genetic behavioral traits that they'll always carry but I've seen a couple of wimpy pups that changed a lot with training, encouragement and maturity. They both ended up with a desire to hunt in any conditions.



The OP never replied to this but it would certainly help with answering the question.

A little OT - I was reading a touchy-feely story today about the millions of dogs who would be boarded on July 4th because they're scared of fireworks & I kind of chuckled. I have to lock mine up because he thinks people are shooting & wants to go over there. I took him to the local skeet range when he was a pup to test his shyness & had to get him out of there before he dragged me on the range.

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My pup is 17.5 weeks.


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That's still pretty young. I'd guess he'll go through a lot of changes over the next year or so.

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Lets see there is the time in South Dakota my wirehair ran threw 5 wire fence post. I thought it was normal 3.. Ripped her chest wide open 20 minutes into a 3 day hunt. Got her stitched up vet said put a t-shirt over her should be good to go.. Hunted great rest of the trip..

Then the North Dakota trip, we were in the pheasants big time.. She went after one running wouldnt come back on my whistle, so i paged her vibrate mode nothen.. Shocked her little bit nothen,, turned the gain up nothen.. By this time we see 20-30 phesants get up far away now im shocking her, Im thinken did the battries die is it to loose..Were the birds were was knee high water cattail we could not get to them i was worried about losing my dog..She was nuts.. Finally she comes back we get to the truck, the collar is working.. i take off the collar i melted a perfect square into her neck.From shocking her.She never yelped once the whole time she was so into the birds she took it... I felt horrible that i did that to her..

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My old Pudelpointer "Bear" was tough enough. A picture of him after a December horseback hunt for huns on the Saskatchewan prairie at -25�C

[Linked Image]

he'd retrieve beavers almost as heavy as he was
[Linked Image]
And after tearing the infraspinatus muscle right off of his shoulder blade, he went on to hunt the uplands one more year without the use of that muscle.
[Linked Image]
He was a hard worker but gentle with kids, a good ol' dog and I miss him.

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I recall your Beaver Retriever pic of a few years ago. I never knew what a PP even was at that time. I am enamored by them now, but I am just starting my journey with my DD pup.

Your dog looks huge. Was he a touch over breed specs? Nice looking dog though. Stout.


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He was on the large end of "normal" - about 75 lbs. The DD has quite a bit of Pudelpointer blood in it, one of the reasons that they are such look alines. Good luck with your pup!

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My Australian Cattle Dogs like to hunt.
I didn't buy them for that.
I just wanted good companions that travel well.

Whiteish female earned an HRC started title.
The male prefers pheasant hunting.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


New puppy makes 3.
Don't care if she hunts either.
If she wants to and can contribute then fine.

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battue, she looks like a Small Muensterlander or a Drent? They are known for no-quit after the shot.

My Drent seems to have the highest pain threshold I know. Ran over his head with a half ton pickup on a gravel road, and he shrugged it off with a "what did you do that for?" look.

Got torn up by a coon at the farm, and I never realized it until the next day, when the wounds starting oozing.

Retrieving ducks at -6.

Yeah, some are tougher than others...... Dutch.


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English Springer.

A hunting Dog only gets a good 10 years perhaps. I want mine to have fun. They don't have to be all that tough to make me happy.


Last edited by battue; 08/05/13.

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Chesapeake
Tougher than the drumstick off a Sandhill Crane

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My GWP Thor and I were hunting mearns near Gardner Canyon South of Tucson. We had just rounded a small hill with both dogs trotting along looking for birds when they trotted right into a sounder of 15 javelina. It happened suddenly and there was nothing I could do. One large javelina sided Thor and bit him. He yiked, I fired the shotgun into the air and the javelina ran off. I caught up to him and saw some blood on his upper lip and thought how lucky. We continued to hunt for a couple more hours.

Two days later I noticed quite a bit of swelling. Went to the vet and after some probing he discovered there was an entrance and exit where those large canines of the javelina had connected. Some irrigation to flush out the infection and some antibiotics fixed him up.

[Linked Image]

javelina skull
[Linked Image]

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Any gundog wrth its salt will kill it's self before it quits. It's up to us to be the "voice of reason" and know when our partner has had enough. Here is my 9 yr old 55 lb Golden doing what she loves in some very bad conditions, and "hiding" behind
her days work.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Wow that is a pile of ducks! Bet your dog had a serious hunger and slept well that night!

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My old beagle is now 9 1/2. Back in his prime, he ran so hard he wore the fronts off his ears from ripping through cover in pursuit of rabbits.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Beyond the chronic ear problems, he was sewn up twice from damages incurred while running rabbits: once when his rib cage was torn open on a fence, the second when he went into a brush pile and punctured his inner leg with a stick. After the second incident, he wound up running in a field trial the following weekend, with duct tape over his gauze covered stiches and a drain tube hanging out. He also got hung going over old fencing a couple times by his back legs, once with rusted wire stuck in his leg. He just hung there till I found him, rolled the wires over, and off he went to catch up with the pack. I also recall when he ran with a locust thorn driven in the back of his paw up into his leg, doing all he could to stay with the pack.

Earlier this spring, I almost lost him to a liver infection, with the bilirubin in his blood registering over 11x the upper range of acceptable. Luckily I got him to the vet early enough for the medication to kick in and he pulled through. During that time, he moved out of the kennels and back inside, living the good life getting pampered by my girls. Also starting to enjoy female visitors from time to time now that he's retired.

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Buncha puzzie's.

Tell ya how tuff my dogs are.
The other day left them in the living room with the TV on while I took my weekly shower..
When I came out I realized The View had been on the whole time I was showering.

To make matters worse, it was one of the old shows with Rosi O'Donnell.

They survived but the Vet said it's the worse case of PTSD he's ever seen.

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barnold,,,, that Beagle's my kind of dog.

You're blessed to have him and that pretty little gal.

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I tend to think your average working dog would put an Olympic athlete to shame for endurance and athleticism and in toughness make a Navy SEAL look like a girly man... wink


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Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Buncha puzzie's.

Tell ya how tuff my dogs are.
The other day left them in the living room with the TV on while I took my weekly shower..
When I came out I realized The View had been on the whole time I was showering.

To make matters worse, it was one of the old shows with Rosi O'Donnell.

They survived but the Vet said it's the worse case of PTSD he's ever seen.


LMAO that is down right animal cruelty!


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It seems like you only get one good dog in a life time. I personall think the tuffness of that dog depends on that dogs drive to please you and pure enjoyment to do what he or she lives to do. A bond and loyality go hand in hand. The bad thing is when you loose that dog the sting is as bad as loosing a member of your family. Jmo. I only let my dog watch the history channel!!!

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My lab is definitely not as tough as she once was...old age is taking it's toll on her joints in the cold. I recall this hunt in ND back in '07 when she was 4 years old on our last day of a 7 day trip. The air temp was in the mid 20's with 25 mph sustained winds. The dog on the right shut down and would not enter the water and my lab on the left had to make every retrieve. Needless to say she did me proud that day. I've been blessed to have her as a part of my life and will miss her dearly when she passes.

[Linked Image]

Over the years she has made some extremely long retrieves that have had me worried, but I've always tried to give her a chance to show her potential. These days any hunts she goes on are easy ones with no blind retrieves. Her hearing is just about gone but she still has the drive...it's just that her body can no longer keep up.

Last edited by UNCCGrad; 07/24/14.


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Nothing is tougher than our dog, Jet. Not only is he fast, hence the name Jet, but just to see his own reflection in the mirror is more than many dogs bigger than him could withstand...

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Originally Posted by Jesse Jaymes
I prefer to query people here rather than other, more dedicated internet forums. For various reasons.

I am making a blanket type inquiry on general Toughness of dogs. And by toughness, I am meaning things such as pain tolerance, environmental tolerance, or simply the lack of being swayed or affected by being uncomfortable.

I have had just a small handful of hunting dogs. Both were Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. The first was a female, the second was a male. I don't recall much of the female. I was very young and the dog was given away without my consent......life lessons learned there. The male I had as an adult. He had a high pain tolerance. But some seperation anxiety that got in the way of really testing much else.

Though not a hunting dog, my current adult dog is an Australian Cattle Dog. To me, he is the standard to be judged against. His pain tolerance is off the charts. I've seen him continue about his business with flesh hanging. He has broken ice to play Fetch. Will find water to lie down in to cool off in January. Just an all around tough guy.

My current puppy is the opposite. He is a softy. Wasnt expecting it, but he is. He needs to paw and fluff up a perfect nest before he lays down. Every place he lays must be padded. If we are sorting laundary for weekend chores, he is found coiled up, camoflauged in with the Darks....sound asleep. He is shivering immediately after getting in the water. The same water I am standing in up to the Blue Line myself in shorts. I don't find it at all cold.

In my experience, this is the dog. Not much you can train or change about it.

Thoughts or experiences? Of course this is the internet, so I would not expect anything less than...."My dog was breaking 2 inches of ice duck hunting in North Dakota last January...it was -5 degrees that day".


In my opinion a dog's toughness shouldn't be confused with the dog's level of courage. And to me, it sounds like your dog's level of courage when it comes to water may be very low. Meaning it is not shivering due to the temperature, but extremely nervous or scared because it hasn't been introduced to enough water.

You obviously know a thing or two about dogs, I'm just throwing that idea out there.

My lab is very "tough." Meaning, he has fallen out of a pickup truck doing 65mph and was chasing grasshoppers minutes later. Nose bleeding, limping everywhere, huge chunk of road rash, etc. But his tail kept wagging the whole time and he would still jump in and out of the truck.

But that doesn't mean he won't tremble when we are @ 10,000' and lightning strikes nearby. He'll have to be exposed to those things more and more before he grows accustomed to it.

Some dogs are simply born with lots of courage. It matters not whether they have been exposed to things or not. They just go. Slippery floor, pool full of water, a grate on a garage floor, or whatever.

Others need to be exposed to those things before they'll gain any degree of comfort and I expect that is what your dog will require.



Travis


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Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
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Originally Posted by battue
Tough isn't always what a Dog can take. More often it's what a Dog is willing to give.

How about giving 4 solid hours at 11 and 12 years old? How about doing it with kidney function of around 15%? How about getting her last Vet checkup and the Vet says I can't believe this Dog is still here. She is doing great. Then you tell the Vet no she isn't and he does another kidney check and he comes back and says there is nothing left. It's time or it's going to get ugly real quick.

How about Her last Ruffed Grouse being rocked up high and setting its wings for a glide to who knows where? Two other Dogs looked for a bit and came back shortly. She was gone for over a half hour. We both gave up and started calling her in. A little later she shows up with a dead Grouse.

How about in your prime you look like this?

[Linked Image]




And at the end like this, but never quit?



[Linked Image]



Yea she was tough. I'd also venture to say she had more than a little grit.
Somebody said it before me, but it holds true. "Damn fine Dog."


Wrap up this thread, that my friends Says it ALL


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I just had to put this old boy down a little over a month ago.
[Linked Image]

He was by far the "toughest" dog I've ever been around. He would hunt pheasant until he wore the pads off his paws and only when I managed to get a leash on him would he stop. Bloody paws and all, he would keep going.

Ran full bore into a barbed wire fence, pierced his chest as he flipped [bleep] over elbows over it, shook himself off and kept running.

And when it came to other dogs, he was downright brutal. Saw him chase a great dane across our property, chased off labs and retrievers and really only ever got along with our female GSP and my Dad's lab.

Oh and he could swim for hours on end. Never for a purpose, just liked to swim.

As someone above mentioned, it was his desire. He had a very strong hunt instinct in him and he just wouldn't stop, ever. Was very difficult to say goodbye to him, because he was MY dog.

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Sorry for your loss. We all deserve at least one great dog. Maybe more.


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Louie is not a tough dog when it comes to cold, but he loves the heat.
I have seen him sleeping before he hit the ground however, then when I went to open the gate he got out and was going to head i to the field to hunt again!!
I've had to leash him a few times because I needed to take care of cactus thorns or other some such stickers in his paw and it's a job to catch him if there are birds around even if i see him limping!
I've watched him pile right up on blow downs and hidden page wire( that was a frightening experience to watch!!) and keep on going.
The whistle lets him know I'm not messing around however!
[Linked Image]
His buddy tramp however ( Hornhead's Griffon)is about as tough a pointer as you can find!
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
he will swim all day, climb straight backs of creeks, rocks, pile into blowdowns and great right back up and keep on charging! I don't think I've seen that dog slow down.....
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My time as a Boykin owner ended after almost 20.years this week when I had my last one put down because of failing health. Both of my dogs gave their all in hot and cold weather. The older dog hunted hard through her 13th season. Their efforts to please were monumental. Lack of wild bird opportunities make getting a new pup impractical. I used to live in wonderful pheasant country and the dogs had over 100 wild birds shot over them almost every season for several years. I will miss the companionship.

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Just because you don't need a dog doesn't mean a dog doesn't need you.


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Trust me, there are still plenty of dogs on the farm, just no bird dogs. My dogs were from hunting lines and lived to hunt. They were also great pets, but would have been really bored without birds.

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I'm glad you clarified the situation. It was just a suggestion anyway, not a criticism.


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Originally Posted by oznog
My time as a Boykin owner ended after almost 20.years this week when I had my last one put down because of failing health. Both of my dogs gave their all in hot and cold weather. The older dog hunted hard through her 13th season. Their efforts to please were monumental. Lack of wild bird opportunities make getting a new pup impractical. I used to live in wonderful pheasant country and the dogs had over 100 wild birds shot over them almost every season for several years. I will miss the companionship.


Sorry to hear of the loss of your Boykin. I don't think that any breed gets as close to their owner as a Boykin does. I miss mine terribly.

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Originally Posted by SShooterZ
I just had to put this old boy down a little over a month ago.
[Linked Image]

He was by far the "toughest" dog I've ever been around. He would hunt pheasant until he wore the pads off his paws and only when I managed to get a leash on him would he stop. Bloody paws and all, he would keep going.

Ran full bore into a barbed wire fence, pierced his chest as he flipped [bleep] over elbows over it, shook himself off and kept running.

And when it came to other dogs, he was downright brutal. Saw him chase a great dane across our property, chased off labs and retrievers and really only ever got along with our female GSP and my Dad's lab.

Oh and he could swim for hours on end. Never for a purpose, just liked to swim.

As someone above mentioned, it was his desire. He had a very strong hunt instinct in him and he just wouldn't stop, ever. Was very difficult to say goodbye to him, because he was MY dog.


You just described my Jake. They could pass for twins. He will swim after ducks and geese on the pond until he is to the point of drowning. He has run 17 miles non stop beside the ATV like it was nothing. He rides shotgun everywhere I go. He put the U in uber. I am sorry for your loss.

[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by shrapnel


Nothing is tougher than our dog, Jet. Not only is he fast, hence the name Jet, but just to see his own reflection in the mirror is more than many dogs bigger than him could withstand...

[Linked Image]



LMFAO!!!!! What in the hell is that!?!?!


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Thanks CrowRifle. Looking at that pic of your pup sure brought back some memories of when Remmy was a younger dog. Thanks for the kind words and sharing the pic. They're amazingly awesome dogs and there will be a GSP at my side until the day I die.

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