Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC for best all round AR caliber.

Awe, now you went and done it. Actually, when used in the same length barrel and with similar weight bullets the 6.8 has more velocity and energy than the 6.5. It's understandable that this mistake is made because most 6.8 vs 6.5 comparisons are made when the 6.8 is shot from a 16 inch tube and the 6.5 shot form a 22 or 24 inch tube. But that's okay. I'm just glad I can buy 6.8 at WalMart. When they have it that is.

see bottom 1/4 of this page for comparison.
http://ar15performance.com/6_8_misc_info

I dunno, I"ve shot the grendel enough at 600 to be really impressed with the little round.

MUCH more so than my 6.8 necked to 6mm.

I don't think its at all more accurate due to 6.5 bullets. Its due to the basic short fat PPC case.

Btw IIRC The grendel has a few tweaks that make it not quite exactly a 6.5 ppc, but thats actually what it started as by Arne Brennan years ago. I think Bill just needed to put a tweak to it for some reason to make it a hair different, not that it made it necc better IMHO.

The 6.8 has higher velocity out of the muzzle but then those lower BC 6.8spc bullets get dragged down and the higher BC bullets of the Grendel keep going long after the 6.8 is cold in the dirt. The turn over is around 300 yards but for 150 yards or so they are about equal. That's the facts jack.

Here's an example the Hornady 123gr SST 6.5mm Grendel has a Ballistics Coefficient (BC) of .510. The comparable 6.8SPC 120gr SST Hornady has a BC of .400. That's inherent in the caliber. The Grendel because of it's longer more arrow dynamic shape has higher BC bullets that keep going and going.

I am well aware of the exterior ballistics but that does not equate to "more accurate" which was your claim. Accuracy will have more to do with the individual rifles than the small advantage of the exterior ballistics of the higher BC bullets of the 6.5 DUDE

The Berger 140 grain 6.8 load from Silver State Armory is still supper sonic at 1000 yards. But again that is exterior ballistics and not accuracy

Show us some targets to back up your claim of more accurate

I personally would want something bigger than all of them for Elk. One size does not fit all regards rifle cartridges. There is only so much powder you can put into a case big enough to fit into the normal AR upper. You need to weight bullet, powder, case availability, ammunition availability if that interests you against possible gains in performance. I have looked at all the others but still use the 22 centerfire with heavy or solid copper bullets and so far in the 2 years of shooting them at animals 4 bullets have killed 1 10 point deer and 3 hogs. I want to get a bolt 223 but want a 1-8 twist.

I've worked extensively with the 6.8. Frankly, some of the reloading data out there scares me. I find SSA factory velocities close to what's possible, but their Tactical rounds are +P.

Both are very close when it comes to hunting. Does capacity really matter when most states have a 5 round max? The 6.8 mags hold 27 or 30 depending on the brand, the Grendel 25. Both are capable of 1/2" or better accuracy but most can't shoot them that well.
Both have the exact same case capacity so energy...power at the muzzle is very close. The 6.8 has more factory hunting bullets/loads available. As far as range, the threshold of expansion for the bullets limit the range of both to around 350 yds. If you're talking about shooting paper at long range then the Grendel/264LBC will have less wind drift than the 6.8 due to some of the bullets. Although there are 130 and 140gr Bergers being loaded for the 6.8 so the BC difference between the 123 6.5s and 130 .277 is not that much difference and the 6.8 will propel a 130 about the same velocity a Grendel/264 will propel a 123.
For all practical purposes it's a toss up.

Here are the factory loads for the Grendel. What loads are available for the 6.8 SPC?

Alexander Arms
1. 100gr Berger Match HPBT
2. 120gr Barnes TSX HPBT
3. 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
4. 123gr Lapua Scenar HPBT
5. 129gr Hornady SST
6. 130gr Swift Scirocco
7. 115gr Berger HPBT Custom

Note: AA brass is Lapua brass headstamped Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel, with small rifle primers.

Precision Firearms
1. 123gr Sierra Match King HPBT
2. 123gr Lapua Scenar HPBT
3. 120gr Sierra Match King HPBT
4. 123gr Hornady AMAX (Lapua brass)
5. 120gr Hornady AMAX
6. 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
7. 123gr Hornady SST
8. 130gr Nosler Accubond
9. 107gr Sierra Match King HPBT
10. 100gr Lapua Scenar HPBT
11. 108gr Lapua Scenar
12. 123gr Lapua Silver Scenar

Note: Precision Firearms uses Lapua brass predominantly, with Hornady sometimes as an exception.

Hornady
1. 123gr Hornady AMAX
2. 123gr Hornady SST

Note: Hornady uses small rifle primer brass of different alloy and internal dimensions/case capacity from Lapua.

Wolf/PPU (Prvi Partizan from Serbia production, Wolf marketed)
1. 123gr Soft Point
2. 120gr MPT

Note: PPU brass uses LARGE rifle primers, different alloy brass, and different internal dimensions/case capacity.

(45) different 6.8 rounds �As of 11/27/12
Since then�Federal has announced a 115 FMJ in their American Eagle line and Prvi has announce a 115g HPBT and 115g FMJBT bringing the total offerings to (48).
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/06/20/6-8-spc-ammo-prvi-partizan/

Barrett-------110 HPBT

BVAC---------110 VMax
--------------110 Accubond
--------------115 HPBT
--------------115 FMJ

Corbon-------110 TTSX
--------------115 SMK
--------------115 subsonic

DoubleTap-----95 TTSX
---------------110 Vmax
---------------115 FMJ
---------------110 TTSX
---------------110 OTM

Federal (et al)
---------------90 Gold Dot bonded
---------------115 Fusion


Good To Go Ammunition (contact for current availability)
---------------115 OTM
---------------120 SST

Hornady-------110 Vmax
---------------110 BTHP
---------------120 SST

Hunting Shack-110 VMax
---------------115 OTM

RAM-----------110 VMax
---------------115 OTM

Rem.---------115 FMJ
--------------115 HPBT
--------------115 Corelokt Bonded
--------------115 SMK

Sellier&Bellot---110 TSX
---------------110 PTS
---------------110 FMJ

SSA---Loads available in Commercial and Tactical velocities
----------------85 ETip
----------------85 TSX
----------------85 Barnes RRLP frangible
----------------95 TTSX
----------------97 AP
----------------100 Nosler Accubond
----------------110 Nosler Accubond
----------------110 Sierra Pro hunter
----------------110 TTSX
----------------115 SMK
----------------140 Berger VLD

Wilson Combat
----------------95 TTSX
----------------110 BTHP
----------------110 TSX


(23) Factory loadings for the Grendel vs (48) Factory loadings for the 6.8 SPC

Not bad but they both have what you need. Match, tactical and hunting rounds.

Here's a list of bullets available for reloaders.

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34132774/Grendel%20Bullet%20Selection.pdf

The 6.8 has proven to work, but my personal choice would always be a 6.5 for a hunting set up. Up close in combat roles either will do. I just like the bullet offerings in 6.5 in this range of weights, no doubt more choices have come open in 6.8, it's just a personal preference.

I believe if one is pushing long range the 6.5 has a slight edge, how meaningful that is in the field on impact assuming shot placement with bullets designed for game at reduced speeds would have to be compared. I'd not want to get hit by any myself

That 90gr Gold Dot/Federal load is quite accurate.

I am curious...

Is the Grendel being fielded by any of the world's military forces?

The 6.8 has not been accepted by the US military although it has seen limited use by U.S. SF forces.

However, the 6.8 is being used by DEA in the form of M6A2-D-DEA 6.8 SPC rifles.

Also, the Jordanians are producing 6.8 SPC rifles and carbines for their Jordanian Royal Protection Unit under license by LWRC at the Jordanian KADDB manufacturing facilities....

In addition...LWRC is producing 32,000 Six8 PDW's for the Saudi Royal Guard and Federal has an annual contract with the Saudis for 1.15 million rounds of ATK 6.8 SPC 90g Bonded rounds.

The Czechoslovakians...also are offering CZ805 Bren A1/A2 assault rifles in 6.8 SPC as an option to 5.56 and 7.62x39.

It would seem at least a few foreign countries and one US department have acknowledged the advantages of the 6.8 SPC round and are currently fielding weapons in this caliber.

Are there any similar foreign forces or US government departments fielding the Grendel?

The interest by Special Forces in the 6.8SPC is long gone. Not in usage, sorry you bought into the internet forum lore.

While on the subject of ammo... I did a quick search to compare current availability between 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel. The result was surprising...and could perhaps influence those on the fence trying to choose between the two rounds.


http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/68-spc/

http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/65grendel/

They just added the Grendel which means they aren't tracking as many suppliers. The point though is obvious the 6.8spc has a larger market share but crapper ballistics.