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Yes,his contradictions are hard to keep up with.


The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward




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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by curdog4570
But....... you have to account for GZ's claim that Martin was trying to get his pistol and he managed to get it away from him.

GZ never said TM had the pistol and it had to be recovered.

GZ *thought* TM was going after it.
You know he has to know that already. Can't imagine what makes folks like curdog tick. What kind of mind is slanted towards the attacking thug in a self defense scenario?


Are you saying that GZ didn't claim that he and Martin struggled over the pistol?

As far as my mind being slanted, I have no dog in this fight. What happens in Florida, or ANY of the blue states impacts my life not at all.

I can just read sign better than some of you.


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Originally Posted by isaac
Yes,his contradictions are hard to keep up with.


You're blatherin' again. I haven't contradicted myself at all.

I was hoping you or your intern would make a worthwhile comment on my extremely insightful post as to what the truth of the encounter most likely was.

Oh well...... maybe Gus will chime in,


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Originally Posted by curdog4570

I can just read sign better than some of you.


I don't know about that, tell me just what this sign here reads like to you?

[Linked Image]


If Zimmerman gets out of this he better hope he never has to go on a rabbit hunt with you!!


grin




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Originally Posted by tndrbstr
Originally Posted by curdog4570
Now...... Here's how I see it :

GZ, like any CHL holder, knows that a self defense claim requires that you have reason to believe that an aggressor has both the intention and the means to kill or hurt you.
Being on top of him and beating his head on the concrete serves to establish both requirements in the minds of most of you.

Now right there I thought we were finally gonna be able to meet at an agreement.



Until you got to right here and just blew it out of the water....
smile crazy

Originally Posted by curdog4570
"See....bouncing his head off the pavement a few times after a punch in the nose is NOT ironclad proof that Martin intended to kill him or injure him severely.



Surely you have been in a few fights, haven't you?

Do you think Zimmerman was in danger of being killed considering this punk kid SUPPOSEDLY hit him 30 or 40 times[again, depending on which GZ interview you take as gospel] and he never missed a day of work or was under the care of a doctor.

Fact is, I've been hurt worse on my eyeball and didn't even blink.



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Been over two hours with no response.

I win.






grin


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Holy [bleep], just watched some of the ME's testimony. That stupid SOB shouldn't even be allowed to take take-out orders over the phone, much less perform autopsies! What a [bleep] ratard!

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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by curdog4570
But....... you have to account for GZ's claim that Martin was trying to get his pistol and he managed to get it away from him.

GZ never said TM had the pistol and it had to be recovered.

GZ *thought* TM was going after it.


It depends on which one of GZ's recorded interviews you take as gospel. Does THIS ring a bell ?

" At this point, it was no longer MY gun, it became THE gun we fought over". [ I THINK it was in the Greta interview, but I'm not certain]

Why would the PA try and establish the fact that Martin's prints weren't on the gun if no claim had been made that he touched it?

Don't have cable/satellite so I haven't seen all the interviews.

I have to wonder why the prosecution didn't introduce that video to show a changing story. I've not seen anything that indicates ANY variation of Zimmerman's account.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
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There has not been any... CD is obviously trolling... or a dumbshit of JO proportion...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Originally Posted by ironbender
Quote

" At this point, it was no longer MY gun, it became THE gun we fought over".

Don't have cable/satellite so I haven't seen all the interviews.

I have to wonder why the prosecution didn't introduce that video to show a changing story. I've not seen anything that indicates ANY variation of Zimmerman's account.
He chose the word "fought" to refer to what appeared to him a struggle between the two of them as to who could get a hold of the gun first. He said that his jacket, due to the struggle, was no longer over top his gun, and he felt Treyvon's hand sliding down his side as if to search for the weapon (the assumption being that he must have caught a glimpse of it in the low light). At that point, to Zimmerman, it became a contest for who would get it first. He termed this "fighting over the gun," but explained exactly what he meant. Fighting doesn't have to mean both parties had their hands on it. There's no contradiction, just different words used at different times to describe the same events, which is only normal when recounting something on many different occasions. The fact that state's prosecution is always going to use such variations in speech against you, however, is the reason you make one and only one statement about this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
There has not been any... CD is obviously trolling... or a dumbshit of JO proportion...


Of course there are variations in the accounts he has given. The only question is the amount of consideration they should be given.

Shouldn't you be occupied in some other area?

Like returning other members property to them?



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IF he testifies, you can bet you will see ALL his interviews. Over and over and over and..............

It seems to me as if just about ALL the potential FACT witnesses to the event were called by the State.

Putting forth a defense consisting primarily of EXPERT witnesses with the defendant watching and not testifying appears to me to be pretty risky.

Perhaps Judge issac or his intern can SHOW where I'm full of schitt, rather just "issuing a ruling" which has been the case thus far.

grin


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by ironbender
Quote

" At this point, it was no longer MY gun, it became THE gun we fought over".

Don't have cable/satellite so I haven't seen all the interviews.

I have to wonder why the prosecution didn't introduce that video to show a changing story. I've not seen anything that indicates ANY variation of Zimmerman's account.
He chose the word "fought" to refer to what appeared to him a struggle between the two of them as to who could get a hold of the gun first. He said that his jacket, due to the struggle, was no longer over top his gun, and he felt Treyvon's hand sliding down his side as if to search for the weapon (the assumption being that he must have caught a glimpse of it in the low light). At that point, to Zimmerman, it became a contest for who would get it first. He termed this "fighting over the gun," but explained exactly what he meant. Fighting doesn't have to mean both parties had their hands on it. There's no contradiction, just different words used at different times to describe the same events, which is only normal when recounting something on many different occasions. The fact that state's prosecution is always going to use such variations in speech against you, however, is the reason you make one and only one statement about this sort of thing.
This part of the story is particularly believable. If Travon was beating the shixt out of Zimmerman, from on top, MMA-style, it was unlikely Z was going to do anything but get beaten. Suddenly Martin glimpses Z's gun due to his coat having ridden up over it and stops the beating while going for it, giving Zimmerman time to get it first.

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Originally Posted by curdog4570
IF he testifies, you can bet you will see ALL his interviews. Over and over and over and..............

It seems to me as if just about ALL the potential FACT witnesses to the event were called by the State.

Putting forth a defense consisting primarily of EXPERT witnesses with the defendant watching and not testifying appears to me to be pretty risky.

Perhaps Judge issac or his intern can SHOW where I'm full of schitt, rather just "issuing a ruling" which has been the case thus far.

grin
I haven't watched the proceedings, but was under the impression from the posts here that the Defense has not called any Wits yet...that these have all been Wits for the Prosecution.

The Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Travon illegally, for either a Murder Two or Manslaughter charge. Thus far from what I've seen, they've done nothing but raise further reasonable doubts.

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But........... Martin discovering that Z has a gun begs the question; What does Martin do next?

Does he stop beating him and try to get away from him and get shot during his withdrawal? Z's experts will try to testify otherwise, based on ballistics, etc., of course.

The C.E. by the State will be interesting.


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How can you believe in manslaughter? There has been no evidence that Zimmerman shot Trayvon by accident. In fact Zimmerman confessed that he did it on purpose.

Why would he lie when he has a great case for self defense? When the lead investigator on this case said his statement was supported by every bit of evidence?

Last edited by ConradCA; 07/06/13.


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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by curdog4570
IF he testifies, you can bet you will see ALL his interviews. Over and over and over and..............

It seems to me as if just about ALL the potential FACT witnesses to the event were called by the State.

Putting forth a defense consisting primarily of EXPERT witnesses with the defendant watching and not testifying appears to me to be pretty risky.

Perhaps Judge issac or his intern can SHOW where I'm full of schitt, rather just "issuing a ruling" which has been the case thus far.

grin
I haven't watched the proceedings, but was under the impression from the posts here that the Defense has not called any Wits yet...that these have all been Wits for the Prosecution.

The Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Travon illegally, for either a Murder Two or Manslaughter charge. Thus far from what I've seen, they've done nothing but raise further reasonable doubts.


You are correct in your assessment as far as just about everyone [including me] is concerned, with regard to the trial thus far. But the point I'm making is; "What now for the defense?"

There was a finite number of Fact witnesses available to lawyers for both sides. You know, of course, those are the folks that can testify to a relevant bit of information they gained thru their their five senses.

The State called a bunch of them to testify. And the Defense cross examined them. How many new witnesses are still available for the defense to call?

There obviously is a witness list, but I don't know if it is public.

That's why I was hoping one of the keen legal minds around this fire would enlighten us.

Once more, for the newcomers to this thread:

I have never believed this trial has ANY 2A implications, nor do I think it will have anymore
far-reaching legal ramifications than did the O J Simpson trial, which is ZERO.

Therefore, I really could not care less about the verdict from a personal standpoint. I can look at the facts with total objectivity and arrive at my own conclusions.

I offer them for purposes of discussion. Everyone had, and still has the options of agreeing, disagreeing, or ignoring them.

There are always gonna be the members too stupid to argue facts and too immature to refrain from posting.


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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by curdog4570
IF he testifies, you can bet you will see ALL his interviews. Over and over and over and..............

It seems to me as if just about ALL the potential FACT witnesses to the event were called by the State.

Putting forth a defense consisting primarily of EXPERT witnesses with the defendant watching and not testifying appears to me to be pretty risky.

Perhaps Judge issac or his intern can SHOW where I'm full of schitt, rather just "issuing a ruling" which has been the case thus far.

grin
I haven't watched the proceedings, but was under the impression from the posts here that the Defense has not called any Wits yet...that these have all been Wits for the Prosecution.

The Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Travon illegally, for either a Murder Two or Manslaughter charge. Thus far from what I've seen, they've done nothing but raise further reasonable doubts.


You are correct in your assessment as far as just about everyone [including me] is concerned, with regard to the trial thus far. But the point I'm making is; "What now for the defense?"

There was a finite number of Fact witnesses available to lawyers for both sides. You know, of course, those are the folks that can testify to a relevant bit of information they gained thru their their five senses.

The State called a bunch of them to testify. And the Defense cross examined them. How many new witnesses are still available for the defense to call?

There obviously is a witness list, but I don't know if it is public.

That's why I was hoping one of the keen legal minds around this fire would enlighten us.

Once more, for the newcomers to this thread:

I have never believed this trial has ANY 2A implications, nor do I think it will have anymore
far-reaching legal ramifications than did the O J Simpson trial, which is ZERO.

Therefore, I really could not care less about the verdict from a personal standpoint. I can look at the facts with total objectivity and arrive at my own conclusions.

I offer them for purposes of discussion. Everyone had, and still has the options of agreeing, disagreeing, or ignoring them.

There are always gonna be the members too stupid to argue facts and too immature to refrain from posting.


I suspect many of those same witnesses will be called. During cross examination the defense was limited only to the issues brought up by the state in direct examination. It would be different where I am since cross examination is wide open, but as I understand it, Florida is limited to the scope of direct examination.

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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by curdog4570
IF he testifies, you can bet you will see ALL his interviews. Over and over and over and..............

It seems to me as if just about ALL the potential FACT witnesses to the event were called by the State.

Putting forth a defense consisting primarily of EXPERT witnesses with the defendant watching and not testifying appears to me to be pretty risky.

Perhaps Judge issac or his intern can SHOW where I'm full of schitt, rather just "issuing a ruling" which has been the case thus far.

grin
I haven't watched the proceedings, but was under the impression from the posts here that the Defense has not called any Wits yet...that these have all been Wits for the Prosecution.

The Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Travon illegally, for either a Murder Two or Manslaughter charge. Thus far from what I've seen, they've done nothing but raise further reasonable doubts.

There are always gonna be the members too stupid to argue facts and too immature to refrain from posting.


Which explains your presence.


















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Originally Posted by curdog4570


Perhaps Judge issac or his intern can SHOW where I'm full of schitt, rather just "issuing a ruling" which has been the case thus far.

grin


Hey, man, you don't need Issac's help for that. Simply take a deep look in your mirror. See the brown??



The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.


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