Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Bullet Failure

I'm down to about 2"s in a 55 gal oil drum, my Sharps Rifle bullet test will begin soon.

Gunner

Yer gonna have to put that drum on end if you want to catch one of them bullets.

Ed

LOL, yeah, that's the way I do it, full of water and banded down tight.

Have caught:

458 Win Mag 500 gr Woodleigh
505 Gibbs 600 gr Woodleigh
500 Nitro 570 gr TSX
577 Nitro 750 gr TSX

All bullets caught left a nice dognot in the bottom of the drum, I'm gonna chit bricks if the 520 gr Gov bullet from my Shiloh 45-70 punches clean through.

Gunner

You'll be ready for Africa.

You using the steel drums or the plastic ones? I have wondered if the plastic ones would flex, therefore slow the bullet down and reduce total penetration.

Ed

Using steel drums, the 'hydraulic effect' of the 577 Nitro is mind numbing, at the shot [25 yards] the small threaded cap pulled it's threads and went dancing by on my right, the main banded lid blew, drum split at the seam and the bottom had a dognot in it you could nearly put your fist in.

Can't wait to see what the 520 gr GB in the 45-70 will do when powered to 1200 fps by Holy Black.

Gunner

Nuff said...

I DO want to see that beast one of these days.

Ed

Fixt, and sure. LOL

Gunner

you should see his 8 bore







video of gunner loading it and bea175 shooting it in Tennessee

video of gunner and his 577 versus a huge chunk of sandstone

Back the Original thread. I have see a few true bullet failures; the most spectacular of which was a 130 grain Bronze point out of a 270 on a calf elk. It knocked her down but she bounced right back up. The total wound depth didn't exceed 2 1/2" This has kinda jaded me against the 270 ever since and this happened in 1975.

I have seen several 270 and 258 caliber X bullets and Failsafes fail to expand at all. One punched clear through two animals. Never had a problem with the 30 caliber mono bullets.

I have also seen a Federal low-shok fail to penetrate the rib cage on a cow elk from a 308. If you are around enough killing, you are bound to see some weird stuff. As a result, I never used the Federal stuff again nor a Remington Bronze point (good luck finding one)


As for Bergers, I have seen a LOT of them Exit. If you are shooting 7 and 30 caliber heavy bullets, they will almost always exit on deer in my experience. They still kill well but a 180 out of a 7mm is pretty hard to keep in the chest cavity of a deer. A 210 is nearly impossible.

this is eviltwin with i believe gunners 500 nitro, dont think its the 577 though he did shoot it too...

This is an interesting statistic as in the "smokeless world" flat nosed solids out-penetrate round nose bullets by a considerabel margin.

jorge--I have wondered about this too. I suspect that at the higher smokeless velocities the RN solids tend to veer from a straight line and yaw and ultimately tumble, whereas the FN bullets do not. At the lower black powder velocities the RN gives straight line penetration without yaw, hence more penetration. Notice I said SUSPECT, as I have no proof of this, only that the RN bullet is the penetration champ in my Sharps, and always gives straight line penetration in an animal.

Well it is certainly a fascinating subject.

I have always wondered what effect rifle twist, bullet weight, and bullet speed in these cast bullets impart on the performance. On regular soft point ammo the mushroom can affect performance of penetration at the various speeds but the cast bullet wouldn't add that factor.

I'll tell you this much for sure, given proper bullet construction, the more velocity the more penetration, then again how much is enough?

Hey Rattler, I should get that caster to make me up some 'Hard Balls' for that 8 Bore and seat em over 400 gr of FFG and see how they penetrate.

Wouldn't think expansion would be an issue with the 8 Bore, hell, it's .825" when it gets there.

Gunner

Last fall, my neighbor shot a little spike Whitetail with his .308Win at about 40 yds. He was using 150gr Rem Core Lokts, just as he has done for the last forty years. The deer stopped, perfectly broadside and Jim, in a ground blind, shot him halfway up the body, just behind the shoulder. At the shot the deer instantly dropped, then jumped back up and disappeared into the thick brush. Thirty minutes of tracking led to the deer, now dead.

So, realistically, the bullet didn't fail in its intended purpose. Technically, it DID fail since it blew up on a rib going in. The jacket was trapped just inside the ribcage and a small fragment weighing roughly 40gr was found along the bullets track just behind the left ear.
That bullet had entered in a path that should have gone straight through, across the thinnest part of the chest cavity, and exited through the ribs on the left side.
Instead, it turned, jellied one lung, missed the heart and major arteries, and traveled up through the neck along the spine, exiting about two inches behind the left ear.
Strange things happen!

Ed

I agree but straight line penetration is the key when shooting at game. The bullet encounters various obstacles along the way. I have shot a 7STW in game with a 140 SAF that showed a difference in straight line penatraion over 160 grain bullets. It was a faster load but the twist I am sure played a role as well. The little SAF also has a different frontal area on expansion as opposed the the fail safe bullet I'm comparing to.
I will never have the time or inclination to see what variable has the biggest role, twist, bullet weight, or speed. For sure these variable must balance with each other but twist has always seemed to be the most important. Straight line performance based on how fast or slow a bullet is pushed at a given weight in a particular twist barrel interests me

I think you're onto something there. I believe Muledeer has done some writing on "magic" velocites, and there have been some other writers and ballisticians trying to understand it as well.

Ed